Rumba etiquette

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Rumba etiquette

Postby CGMRigoli » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:28 pm

I have been playing for a little while but really want to get into the rumba scene. I live in Berkeley, so I know there is a lot in the bay area to get into. The closest rumba that I know meets regularly is at La Pena. So I know that there are people around, and that's not a problem, but I was wondering if any of the experienced rumberos here, especially those from the bay area could tell me about the kind of etiquette you need to go to a rumba. Sort of what a beginner needs to know to not show up and make a fool of himself. Or just general information on how you think the best way to get into rumba would be very appreciated.

Thanks for your experience!
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:52 pm

I've been to rumbas at La Peña. I recommend that you only get on a part that you know very well and will be able to hold regardless how and what others are playing. If you are a beginning drummer, I wouldn't recommend that you join in. Usually the only reason you would get any bad vibes is if you can't hold your part solidly, or if you are hogging a particular instrument. Typically, a maraca is used to mark the four main beats and a chekere is used to mark two beats per clave. These are simple parts that you may be able to solidly hold in a rumba ensemble. You can always learn a lot from just watching too.
-David
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:26 am

If you are a beginner I don't recommend starting to play there. La Pena can be a very tough and demanding crowd sometimes.
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby CGMRigoli » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:26 am

Thanks for the advice David. I hadn't really thought that I'd be getting on the drums for a while, I sort of assumed you'd have to be playing on shekere or stick parts for a long while before getting familiar with playing and with the regulars. It seems like a lot of rumba groups someone usually brings instruments, so it's not usual to bring your own? Or is that wrong?

And Bongosnotbombs, do you know of anywhere a little more open than La Pena? Or have any advice on finding rumbas around the bay?
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:57 am

I would recommend attending Carlos Aldama's class, or Sandy Perez's class, and getting acquainted with the students and go to the after class sessions with them, those are much more forgiving than La Pena's rumba.
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby jorge » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:54 am

I am glad to see you are interested in the rumba. It is hard to beat the ambience, feeling and learning potential of a real rumba. I say jump right in, but in the beginning do things that won't throw anyone's timing or key off. You can sing coro (away from a mic until you feel confident) and clap clave with your hands. At each rumba, focus on one thing and learn it well. You can clap clave for 3 or 4 hours in one day, that is a huge amount of practicing that you won't have the discipline to do at home. Focus on your timing, make it as precise as you can. If you can't sing and clap clave at the same time yet, just clap clave as well as you can. Get it down until it is perfect, listen to each drum part and how it fits with clave, listen to how the coro fits with clave, and become one with the cata so you are in rhythmic harmony. Get it so tight that you can clap clave without thinking about it, and then get into the feeling of the songs. Then go home and practice every day playing clave with great rumba records. Practice cata with records. Next week go back to the rumba and do it again. After a few weeks, if you are consistently on time with your clave, someone might even hand you the claves for real. Pick someone who can play a part well that you want to learn (clave, cata, chequere or a drum part) and ask him or her to show you the part. Go home and practice it and come back the next week.
If there are always enough drums at the rumbas, don't worry about bringing a drum. If there are ever not enough drums, be generous in bringing your drum, or leave it in your car trunk unless they need it. Most of the good drummers don't like to bring drums, and they appreciate if someone else brings the drums. Just don't expect that bringing a drum gives you any right to play it, if you can't play in time at the level of the others. My first summer going to the Central Park Rumba I used to bring a drum every week, sit down for 20 seconds and someone would tell me I couldn't play and take the drum away, then I would watch everyone else play my drum all afternoon, and carry it home at the end. I got mad at first but I watched closely, learned the tumbador part, and practiced it at home and after a few weeks, I could stay playing for a minute or two. It takes time, practice, and really wanting to learn.
Of course having a teacher who is a great drummer helps a lot to speed up the process. You can't go wrong with either Carlos Aldama or Sandy Perez, but you are going to have to practice a lot between classes to really benefit from their teaching. If you can't find a good teacher nearby, consider joining CongaMasterClass.com, they have some really good teachers and I think they charge about $20 a month. But a live teacher who can teach and can play well is always best to get started.
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby windhorse » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:27 pm

Your question alone, means that you are on the right track.
Staying humble,, learning.. That's all anyone asks at a rumba.

I had been playing for over 10 years, but tried to play both clave and kata at the La Peña rumba last year and was shooed a way. The tiniest aspects of your style can give cause for your immediate replacement. I went off with my tail between my legs.
It can be very humbling.. but not to worry, I think I've since corrected what they are looking for.
There are so many levels to expertise.. Something discussed on this board a few times.

And BTW, Jorge nailed it perfectly!! Good response!
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby Derbeno » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:34 pm

I went to La Peña a few months back and quietly observed before deciding to sit in. There was a rather arrogant gentleman singer that also played clave, each time anyone did not do something quite right he instantly gave them a rather obvious and public ticking off. Now, that is rather bad and uncalled for etiquette.

I played in other settings where the more experienced player made eye contact with anyone that went wrong and played their part to get them back on the right track.
Echale candela, p'afinar los cueros
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby niallgregory » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:05 pm

Derbeno wrote:I went to La Peña a few months back and quietly observed before deciding to sit in. There was a rather arrogant gentleman singer that also played clave, each time anyone did not do something quite right he instantly gave them a rather obvious and public ticking off. Now, that is rather bad and uncalled for etiquette.

I played in other settings where the more experienced player made eye contact with anyone that went wrong and played their part to get them back on the right track.



I can see where your coming from man but i think it has to be a 2 way street .People who havent got there shit together have no business sitting in on a rumba .You can either play or you cant .If you have it down you will be welcomed , if you dont you have no one to blame but yourself .Its like a musician sitting in on a jazz gig and not knowing what they are doing ? It just wouldnt be tolerated would it .I think if someone wants to learn they should study and get as much experience playing with friends behind closed doors before they go to a public rumba , just my opinion .
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby jorge » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:56 pm

Derbeno wrote:I went to La Peña a few months back and quietly observed before deciding to sit in. There was a rather arrogant gentleman singer that also played clave, each time anyone did not do something quite right he instantly gave them a rather obvious and public ticking off. Now, that is rather bad and uncalled for etiquette.
I played in other settings where the more experienced player made eye contact with anyone that went wrong and played their part to get them back on the right track.

I used to rail against this kind of arrogant display in the rumba, but over the past 20 years or so have begun to accept it as a normal and actually very effective teaching method, although somewhat heavy handed and uncomfortable for those being taught. What better way would you suggest to correct people who lose the groove, go off timing, cross the clave, play a riff that does not fit, play over the singer, collide with another part, or any of the myriad of other errors we all commit while learning to play rumba? "The look" does not work if everyone is not continually looking at everyone else. In a setting like La Peña or the Central Park rumba where there are likely to be inexperienced players who mess up more than once in a song, I have not seen less aggressive and arrogant teaching methods that work well. In fact, I have seen fights, knives and even a gun drawn, people kicked out forceably, and lots of arguments. All that is unacceptable and is usually associated with various types of substance abuse. At times this even takes on racial overtones, but most often when you listen critically you will hear that the person being chastised actually is the person that messed up. But the singer / clavero pointing at someone who messes up, emphasizing the clave, commenting verbally, getting someone else to take over the part, those are all normal and in fact signs of the perfectionism that is common among good rumberos (ie, those whose life is the rumba). If one person messes up the timing by a few milliseconds, it is sometimes hard for the audience to tell who messed up. None of the other players wants to get blamed, so there is a a strong social pressure against those who mess up. This is especially true in a public rumba that is also a performance. Internalizing that perfectionism and making sure you never mess up is probably the best way to approach it. Practice a part not only until you get it right, practice it until you can't get it wrong. Timing is key, a few milliseconds can make a big difference in how a part sounds when played against other parts. Then go back and play in the rumba. Over the years you will learn to improvise without messing up. Good things take time.
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby niallgregory » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:14 am

I actually have some video footage somewhere of a rumbon that we attended in havana a few years ago that shows some very experienced older rumberos constantly battling over the clave and who was playing it correctly or not . This went on all night and was actually quite funny 8)
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby roberthelpus » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:35 pm

I'm guessing that if you go to some place like La Pena that there would be a lot of folks there in the same situation as you. They'd probably be pretty easy to recognize too. You could talk to them and hook up to play, and the fact that they are watching the more experienced rumberos is hopefully a good sign that they are interested in getting it right as well.

At least you have some place to go and get shooed away or chastised at :D
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby Isaac » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:24 pm

If you get shooed away, don't take it to heart.

I can hold my own on a low tumbadora or clave, but on another
song, they tested me on quinto, and I was abruptly dismissed for throwing
in a reference to a merengue. Years later at a rumba in Jersey City , I stayed in my comfort
zone on clave and shekere and some coro, without any problems. From that vantage
point you get to learn other more elaborate parts

Airto, the famous Brazilian percussionist shared that he
was very quickly ousted from a Rumba while visiting in Havana.
He said " they're too particular".
Being proficient or even a master of other styles is not that relevant
when it comes to rumba. Humility will get you far.

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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby Quinto Governor II » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:01 pm

niallgregory wrote:I actually have some video footage somewhere of a rumbon that we attended in havana a few years ago that shows some very experienced older rumberos constantly battling over the clave and who was playing it correctly or not . This went on all night and was actually quite funny 8)


I've had a similar experience, although; not in Cuba. At a drumming festival, which featured a rumba performance, after the performance, some of us guaguanco players were playing our casual American park version of guaguanco and a couple of the singers from the group that performed came over and joined us. They stated playing clave and singing, but soon after started arguing about the clave that was being played by one of them. They had been drinking, and one a little too much, it appeared. I don't know if the alcohol was the real cause of the argument or the clave that was being played, but we all got a kick out of it. I remember shaking my head, as I was just beginning to be introduced to real rumba, and thinking to myself - Cubans auguring over clave? I recall someone in another thread some time ago say that some rumberos don't like to play with people they don't know because if someone makes a mistake they don't won't to be blamed for it , because it is not always easy to determine who is wrong or making the mistake. A level of trust and familiarity is what takes place in rumbas that a stranger or beginner has to earn.
jorge gave some excellent advice. I would try to always come as early as possible and try to find the most open and accessible person there can ask if they would show you some stuff. If all the major players are not there yet, there may be just some casual drumming taking place, and this could be an opportunity for you to learn when the requirements may be a little relaxed.
I recall being invited to a Bembe once. Had not been playing that long. The Bembe is about to start and I'm pointed out to drum - the least experienced person there. I turned to the more experienced drummers, and they motioned to me to sit down and play. Man was I nervous and exciting at the same time. I got though the first song okay, however; I was pulled of the drum in the middle of the 2nd song as the Akpon had to tell me twice to not rush the timing. I didn't feel bad about it. I felt good about it, having been able to get through the first song. Was given a shakere and played on the down-beat, and sung coro for the rest of the time. This was a most memorable experience for me. Keep going and practicing the opportunity will come your way.
I would also recommend Congamasterclass.com.. You can't beat it - lacking one on one instructions.
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Re: Rumba etiquette

Postby windhorse » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:38 am

Quinto Governor II wrote:I would try to always come as early as possible and try to find the most open and accessible person there can ask if they would show you some stuff. If all the major players are not there yet, there may be just some casual drumming taking place, and this could be an opportunity for you to learn when the requirements may be a little relaxed.
I recall being invited to a Bembe once. Had not been playing that long. The Bembe is about to start and I'm pointed out to drum - the least experienced person there. I turned to the more experienced drummers, and they motioned to me to sit down and play. Man was I nervous and exciting at the same time. I got though the first song okay, however; I was pulled of the drum in the middle of the 2nd song as the Akpon had to tell me twice to not rush the timing. I didn't feel bad about it. I felt good about it, having been able to get through the first song. Was given a shakere and played on the down-beat, and sung coro for the rest of the time.


Quinto Gov's great attitude will get you far! :D

My experience had been exactly this.. I have been asked repeatedly - especially lately - to step it up. Go ahead and play that part you're most afraid of. Get beyond those mental barriers and pull it off with some semblance of suave and feel... ex. The Mozambique we played tonight..
Boy it's hard! And it hurts sometimes.. But, we have to push ourselves and get in control of our ego's protective nature by using criticism to become more aware of the music, and so gain some mastery.

Good thread.. 8)
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