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I think that is an interesting take coming from experience however it is a bit FOGGY what you say exactly. "Up and coming" is the key phrase along with "counting". So one can deduce that internal clave is core which implies some measure of counting, whether vocalized or not. You are always counting in numbers, heartbeats, thoughts, rhythmic soul patterns...etc. Was is blatant, continual and/or vocalized (non-stage-ready) counting that sparked you up? I can understand with the context of the videos and all. Still fundamentally and without any formal musical background whatsoever, counting is happening whether practicing dry on the solo or with a guitar partner or whatever. Luis Conte makes funny faces but he is counting I tell you! He is not the only one but for brevity's sake...Am I wrong?

Oh, when the fog cleared I saw it being ok to count in a band setting as if counting was a patch for lack of cohesion amongst bandmembers when it should be the other way around when tirando solo. Que dices? With all due respect.

Tigre77

Alafia Abures Mi!
Espero que todo este bien con ustedes! / I hope that all is well with you all!

Very good thread/question hermano Leedy2!
I agree with the viewpoint that even if you are playing alone, you should have either counting going on, or be familiar with the concept of phrasing.
As for my part, I never had the good fortune of having formal training (escuela de percusion), but after 40 plus years of playing salsa, latin jazz, pop, funk, folkloric, and new age genres of music, clave has been internalized. Now, when I'm practicing with a new group, I receive a CD with the music they're wanting me to learn, what happens next is the counting. I count the number of bars/measures to the next section, and so on until the song is over. I then practice on my own to familiarize myself with the structure of the song, however there are times when there isn't a rehearsal of a particular song, or song list and this is where experience comes in to play (no pun intended). "No hace falta la vejez!" Listening to and being familiar with the structure of most styles of songs, you develop an innate ability to follow the song as though you've played it all of your life.......kinda like, oh let's see......"Oye Como Va", and "la Bamba", "Stormy", "Rankankan", "Kimbara" etc. etc. etc.

Okay, to sum it all up I say that when you're first learning to play, bongo, timbal, conga, you should learn to count, at the same time feeling the "pulse" of the song. When it comes to solos, now that's another story...........
As you continue on your trajectory, counting becomes innate/internal, plus you learn to recognize the structure of songs....able to anticipate breaks, recognize the dynamics of playing (when to play softer, and when to play con cojones).


Suave!
Onile

Oh Ok. I see what you are saying now.

Since these are videos the count is possibly for the viewer of the video to understand the tempo and most likely not for the actual practitioner in the video.

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count?? What's that?!

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If you count,you dont have a clue,no matter what you do,you just a repeat machine.Music is a gift like or not...

joaozinho wrote:If you count,you dont have a clue,no matter what you do,you just a repeat machine.Music is a gift like or not...

reminded me of this quote by steve smith

"Having a strong swing pulse at the core of one's music is vital. There is something deeper than keeping time, and that is generating pulse. Pulse is what we base our feel on. Time is keeping that pulse steady, but time is not a pulse."

Without that natural pulse that comes from within it is hard to truly be a musician. I know many who practice all the time, but seem to lack that feeling that people are born with. It's when you combine a person who is born with this pulse and then practices then you have a great musician.

The moral of the story is that you simply can not teach soul