niallgregory wrote:That is not my post , you have quoted the wrong person , but as per usual i disagree with you anyway You DONT need a kit drummer when playing jazz . jazz is a very improvisational music by its very nature . Just because someone is playing percussion instruments in a jazz setting be they conga , bongo , tabla etc etc dosent mean it ceases to be jazz all of a sudden . Its just a different take on it . ........Fusion music has proved this for the last 30 years , influences from all over the globe have had a huge effect on jazz . Another argument for another day is what exactly is jazz ? Maybe people seem to think it has to have that typical swing feel for it to be jazz but tons of modern jazz is played with totally different feel . We have to start respecting each others opinions on this forum or it just going to go even further downhill than it already has . We ALL have different experiences in different genres from around the globe and long may that continue .. Niall
congamyk wrote:Re: MAYUTO CORREA... the old-time jazz players in my city would say that he is JAZZIN'.
He improvises and does his thing. If you don't feel it, that's OK, those of us that do are OK too.
The term "jazz" has come to be now be known as simply "improvised music" and includes many styles stemming from the original style(s) founded in New Orleans. There is Dixieland, Bebop, Swing, Brazilian, Latin (Cuban), 3/4 Waltz feel, Modern, Straight-Ahead, Cool/West Coast, Fusion, Funk or Soul Jazz, Smooth and more styles I didn't include within jazz.
To play "jazz" you don't even NEED a drummer, conga player or a percussionist at ALL.
Smooth jazz prooves THAT since they sometimes don't even use a drummer - they use drum machines!
Jazz can be played by a single instrument, solo sax, solo bass, solo guitar, solo piano or solo oboe. It can be played in duos, trios, etc. none of which have to have a drummer or a percussionist. So to say that jazz has to have a drummer and that the drummer has to play a certain way with a certain nuance is technically not true. Now if you are in school studying jazz drumming they WILL TEACH you to play a certain way and with certain nuances because that is their job. And yes, swing jazz drumming has rudiments, a foundation and certain traits/nuances that are appropriate, acceptable and even mandatory to SOME PEOPLE but what you do with it is your own decision.
Just remember this quote from Charlie Parker... "if you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." So I try to live and learn from all of the styles of jazz. I know rumba, I know swing, I know samba, I know gospel, soul, funk, rock, etc. I also know how to fuse certain elements and styles together in a tasetful way that doesn't denigrate any.
...peace love and jazz to all.
blavonski wrote:This is my last post on this Jazz topic.
blavonski wrote:And to view Jazz as simply improvised music is limited to say the least.
congamyk wrote:The term "jazz" has come to be now be known as simply "improvised music" [b]and includes many styles stemming from the original style(s) founded in New Orleans.[/b]
congamyk wrote:blavonski wrote:This is my last post on this Jazz topic.
Sure.blavonski wrote:And to view Jazz as simply improvised music is limited to say the least.
If you're going to quote me, as though responding directly to me, try to at least quote me correctly.congamyk wrote:The term "jazz" has come to be now be known as simply "improvised music" [b]and includes many styles stemming from the original style(s) founded in New Orleans.[/b]
You missed the entire last half of the quote. Most people understand there's a distinction between various improvised folk musics from around the world and jazz; the American musical art form birthed in New Orleans and further developed in Kansas City, Chicago, New York, Philly, LA, etc., and is still developing today.
blavonski wrote:very interesting discussion, and some very good points made by many, however I'm inclined to go with Leedy on his point about distintive musical idioms becomming generic, say nothing styles with out any real language of their own. Some one rejected the idea of there being rules to musical genres that maintain their authenticity; Yet shortly after that they said that the Tumbao was swinging in a Jazz Trio situation. Well if there were no prerequisite elements in, for example Jazz, then there would have been no need for you to swing to those tunes you played, you could just play whatever, right:?:
Peace,
Blavonski
leedy2 wrote:Yes Jazz can be latin or american Jazz but when you add a conga it becomes latin Jazz never has been nor it will be american Jazz
jorge wrote:leedy2 wrote:Yes Jazz can be latin or american Jazz but when you add a conga it becomes latin Jazz never has been nor it will be american Jazz
Your generalization is wrong. It is true sometimes but not all the time. Some jazz conga players don't even know how to play latin jazz or tumbao and you are now making them latin jazz artists automatically. Some play other styles of conga that have little or nothing to do with latin jazz.
If what you are saying were true, you would have to classify a lot of music that is nothing close to latin jazz by Miles Davis, Pharoah Sanders, Quartette Tres Bien (thanks JC), and many other jazz artists as latin jazz.
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