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Dear members,

I would very much apreciate it if you could help me out with the following;
Does anyone know which rhythms are played in the following 2 songs:

Willie Colon / Hector Lavoe - El dia de mi suerte http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR2PbAiuTD0
Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz - Gan Gan y Gon Gon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOpoudh0HY

Hope to get some responses, thanks!

Alan from Holland

The Rhythm that my Bro Milton Cardona and Jose Mangual Jr. is what i call a "combo rhythm" Caballo, Orisa, and almost a Bomba...but you know what Im gonna reach out to Milton and see how it developed...

the second tune has 2 conga players playing together..one is playing tumbao and the other is playing the line with the bass and piano...then they go into a variation of an Orisa rhythm in the bridge...David Penalosa might want to chime in on these patters...it might also be what they used to call "Jala Jala" back in the 60's...which Ritchie made popular back then. Ritchie is also a personal friend of mine and maybe I can ask him as well about the rhythms...back then they were different approaches in playing certain rhythms and then there were "combo patterns" or "made up" parts by the conga player...

Dear Johnny,

Thanks a lot, this already is very useful information for me to focus myself in the right direction! Its great that you are willing to share so much useful info through this forum.
It seems to me that while rhythmic styles in books are often posed as absolute truths, however especially in those older songs we often seem to hear a lot of creative combinations and different interpretations of these styles as well.

Best,

Alan

Alan1984 wrote:Dear Johnny,

Thanks a lot, this already is very useful information for me to focus myself in the right direction! Its great that you are willing to share so much useful info through this forum.
It seems to me that while rhythmic styles in books are often posed as absolute truths, however especially in those older songs we often seem to hear a lot of creative combinations and different interpretations of these styles as well.

Best,

Alan

On El Dia De Mi Suerte they are playing a bomba, WAC style. Back in the day Willie Colon band used to play what they called "WAC Rhythms" which is a basically what JC talked about on his post. JC can check with Milton about the "WAC Rhythms". On the Richie Ray tune in some sections there I hear the conga playing an aguinaldo rhythm pattern, you hear the handbell play a pattern that is normally played with bomba, aguinaldo and other rhythms. Also you got to remember that around the time this Richie Ray recording came out (mid 70's), Richie and Bobby were gigging heavily in Puerto Rico as a matter of fact they lived in Puerto Rico for a period of time in the 70's. So it would not surprised me if "aguinaldo" had an influence on this song. Willie Colon and Richie Ray love to mix rhythms and like you pointed out in very creative combinations.

Another example is what Tommy Lopez did in Eddie Palmieri's band with Manny Oquendo...now back then (the 60's) we didnt really know how to play certain rhythms..Pello El Afrokan created the Mozambique, but had 20 drummers in his Comparsa...so how could one drummer re create what this type of band was playing?..well Tommy and Manny came up with "their" version of a simplified Mozambique, relegated to One Conga drum(when it was time for Tommy to solo on conga it was Barry Rogers(Eddie's trombone player) who played either a guaguanco or another pattern shown to him by Tommy)and the cowbell part and 'bombo' played by Manny. Now nobody in Cuba played it that way, of course..with all those drummers, parts were created by Pello...and the Mozambique in Cuba is played very very differently than the way Tommy played it, but as young as we were that is the one we learned to play versus the Cuban way of playing it today.

Today we know a LOT more with the drum...It has advanced to a very highly technical level now....but rhythms are rhythms, that also have evolved and advanced as well....but those older versions are just as good to learn as the newer ones today.... I challenge any of you to keep up with Tommy Lopez on the Molasses CD/album with the tune Bombonsito de Pozo ...now if you dont know how to play what Tommy is playing I will show your for free thru SKYPE..or maybe i can do a video today of me "playing along" with the music so you can see how he did it...I learned how to play Tommy's Mozambique from Mario Galagarza(Willie Colon's first conga player and still a friend of mine to this day) who learned from Tommy himself...hope this helps ya....JC

So true, JC. You are taking us to the "deep end" with "Bomboncito De Pozo". What La Perfecta
layed down on that recording is golden specially Manny Oquendo and Tommy Lopez, Sr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw2HTF6AJo0

Here I am playing the Tommy Lopez version of one drum Mozambique as I learned back in the 60's...I will show other versions later...watch the volume on this as it's a bit loud...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx9w3j2lX7U

Thanks for the video JC, Slaminnnnnn. I am practicing my momzabique licks, lots of fun.