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Hey There!!

So, I'm at a point in my learning where I can rip doubles really quite fast. I've developed a few little "riffs" that I can almost blend together into a continuous screaming doubles based fill (only thinking of something 2-3 bars long), but I'm at a plateau. I can taste it, it's just around the corner, but I'm missing some patterns or specific technique. Sustained triplets are much easier than sustained 16th's at this point. I can hold the tempo with 16th, there's just no real life to it after a bar or so.

The advanced players on this board know what I'm talking about. Abaqua for example has a couple you-tube posts where he's "messing around". I can do all of the stand alone triplet riff's he does etc, but the 16th based rolls that go on for a few bars still elude me.

Does anyone have any specific suggestions? Perhaps a video of someone working up to this type of fill? I've worked on some of the "warming up the drum" rudiments, but they seem just that, rudiments. Perhaps I'm just not fast enough with them yet to have them fit in yet.

RR - OOPS, posted this in the wrong area!! Admin - please move to rhythms and technique...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuj7Ag76Xw This guy has everything you need ...

niallgregory wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuj7Ag76Xw This guy has everything you need ...

Hey Thanks for that! I have also been excited to learn this technique. My approach is no doubt slower, starting with Bass-Touch exercises where the same hand does the bass and touch. Seemed like a good way to educate the hands into that type of timing. I got pretty good at a 6/8 version where the right hand does a slap, then two tones with the left, then two tones with the right, then a slap with the left that leads back to the right hand slap. But, that's just a small exercise. I think it could make a nice quinto statement if that first slap hit right after the clave's first strike, and maybe that last slap changed to a bass on the clave's first strike. That would set you up for coming out of the clave in the quinto slot, then you could do the full roll twice and end up back in the quinto slot. I tried it only once in a lucid moment, but not in a big hurry. Gotta savor the small breakthroughs along the way.

Thanks Niall, (edited

This fella is who I referred to as "warming up the conga", I think that's what his sheets are labled.

If that's the path, I guess I'll just keep working on it.

RR

rhythmrhyme wrote:Thanks Nail,

This fella is who I referred to as "warming up the conga", I think that's what his sheets are labled.

If that's the path, I guess I'll just keep working on it.

RR

I have been called many things but thats the first time someone has called me a " Nail " ! LOL

windhorse wrote:

niallgregory wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuj7Ag76Xw This guy has everything you need ...

Hey Thanks for that! I have also been excited to learn this technique. My approach is no doubt slower, starting with Bass-Touch exercises where the same hand does the bass and touch. Seemed like a good way to educate the hands into that type of timing. I got pretty good at a 6/8 version where the right hand does a slap, then two tones with the left, then two tones with the right, then a slap with the left that leads back to the right hand slap. But, that's just a small exercise. I think it could make a nice quinto statement if that first slap hit right after the clave's first strike, and maybe that last slap changed to a bass on the clave's first strike. That would set you up for coming out of the clave in the quinto slot, then you could do the full roll twice and end up back in the quinto slot. I tried it only once in a lucid moment, but not in a big hurry. Gotta savor the small breakthroughs along the way.

Hey Windhorse,

The heal toe is where I started as well. I typically practice with a metronome and focus on doubling my timing i.e. play at the tempo and then double time the pattern to work on the speed. I've made quite a bit of progress with this. I've done the same with the written materials that can be found through the link above. It was really important for me to move away from just the heal/toe in the middle of the drum, which I came to see as the easiest technique, to working open tone doubles, slap/tone doubles, paradidles etc etc etc. I'm at the point now of rolling these together and it's pretty exciting... I think I just need to sit down and decide on a pattern and then work it up to speed. I find I really need to consistently practice this technique, 7-10 days away from it and my speeds still drop considerably. I hold more and more after a break, but it still really sets me back.

rhythmrhyme wrote:

windhorse wrote:

niallgregory wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQuj7Ag76Xw This guy has everything you need ...

Gotta savor the small breakthroughs along the way.

It was really important for me to move away from just the heal/toe in the middle of the drum, which I came to see as the easiest technique, to working open tone doubles, slap/tone doubles, paradidles etc etc etc. I'm at the point now of rolling these together and it's pretty exciting... I think I just need to sit down and decide on a pattern and then work it up to speed. I find I really need to consistently practice this technique, 7-10 days away from it and my speeds still drop considerably. I hold more and more after a break, but it still really sets me back.

We may have similar practice styles. I'll always go back to super slow bass-touch exercises for about 20 minutes, then start into double tones,, and my current new focus is paradidles with three drums, and changing slap placements. That, for maybe 20 or 30 minutes building speed and then slowing way down, and then back to really slow technique of bass-touches. The muscle memory is paying huge dividends! Just yesterday my favorite rumba buddies referred to me as becoming a "bad ass".. I think they were just honoring the fact that they can see the improvement. Sounds like you're getting there the same way! Hurray for hard work and diligence!

windhorse wrote:We may have similar practice styles. I'll always go back to super slow bass-touch exercises for about 20 minutes, then start into double tones,, and my current new focus is paradidles with three drums, and changing slap placements. That, for maybe 20 or 30 minutes building speed and then slowing way down, and then back to really slow technique of bass-touches. The muscle memory is paying huge dividends! Just yesterday my favorite rumba buddies referred to me as becoming a "bad ass".. I think they were just honoring the fact that they can see the improvement. Sounds like you're getting there the same way! Hurray for hard work and diligence!

"Hard work and diligence!" That's the key to life long learning!

---
paz música y amor

Smoothing out the rolls:
The rebound stoke on doubles in hand drumming is naturally weak, because “hands don’t bounce”

Here’s a sticking pattern with a Brasilian feel from Chuck Silverman’s site.

This exercise utilizes double strokes and a common permutation of the single paradiddle, RLLR LRRL,

The first measure, to be repeated twice.
The second measure, also to be repeated twice.

If having difficulty playing it all as a unit, try getting up to speed on each measure, then put the two together. The two measures each have a different feel that may make the transition between the two challenging.

A metronome playing a bossa clave sets the mood |X..X|..X.|..X.|.X..|
Alternatively, play along with samba music.
All open tones.
Accent Heavily.
Get it going at a good clip and it feels like a relentless samba.
Keep it going and develop your stamina.

This exercise with rebounds (second stroke of double) on the beat is similar in concept to GL Stones exercises in “Accents and Rebounds”, which work to strengthen the rebound stroke in double rolls.

There is not a great deal of notation for conga double rolls.
However snare exercise literature is abundant with roll exercises, and very adaptable for conga use.

Well, I had a little breakthrough this evening...

After taking a closer look at Heinrich's you tube posts (beyond the one with the transcripts) I noticed a very important piece of technique, something I had started to train but wasn't 100% sure if it was the right approach so I didn't stick with it. He holds a "heal toe" style of hand movement for his open double tones, catching a tone with the middle of his hand where the heal would strike and then grabbing another from the natural movement of the hand as it pulls back from the strike. Also, rather than coming down from above to initiate the double, he approaches the drum more from the side. When I do this, it feels more like I'm pushing into the side of the drum rather than dropping onto it. I've been able to rip heal/toe doubles in the center of the drum way faster than I've been able to do open tone doubles. Bringing this technique to the open tones really opened things up, and the speed finally came to the open tones for me today... it's still a bit sloppy, but WAY faster than I was doing before, like almost double.... I still can't think as fast as my hands seem able to go, but I know this will come with time.

thought I'd share - now all I have to do is practice, practice, practice and start mixing in various slaps and more moment to the other drums etc.

I think I finally crossed the bridge!!

RR

A new style for rolls I have been using is Heel-Thumb-Toe for a triplet feel or to speed up my Conga playing. I learned this style from Pandiero players and it really cooks! It also works great on a tambourine with a head with practicing this style. I hope to try the Pandiero as well.

This has really opened the door to new possibilities for me with my Conga playing and it is rather exciting.

Just my 2 cents...