Songo Rhythm: where is it?

A place where discuss about secrets, tips and suggestions for practicing on congas and to improve your skill and technique ...

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby jorge » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:49 am

JC songo and timba are totally danceable, the reason they have not caught on in the US is not because there is no dance called "the songo" or "the timba". I think the problem is that you really need to know clave and rumba to dance to songo or timba music and I think most non-Cuban Latinos in the US don't "get" clave and can't dance rumba. Salsa, merengue, bachata and cumbia just don't work with songo or timba music. I don't know Miami but I know lots of US Cubans in NY/NJ and the Bay area who definitely do dance to timba and songo. Another part of the reason timba, rumba, songo have not caught on in the US is the heavy anti-Cuban propaganda, the continuing embargo, and the near total lack of exposure to modern Cuban music here (outside of your show and a few others around the country). Abakua, what is it like in Australia, do non-Cuban Latinos dance well to songo and timba? Or do they not "get it" there either?
Here is a timba con songo danced rueda style by some high school kids from Villa Clara in Cuba. Some of the best, most natural dancing I have seen, they are great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZDQ0vpn0ZM
jorge
 
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby Derbeno » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:23 am

"timba is not catching on here"
Quite a sweeping generalization. What data do you have to make this conclusion?
When any of the great Timba bands are in town (San Fran or San Diego), tickets are sold out almost instantly. Alexander and Havana D'Primera was in town and was sold out for two nights they added a third and that sold out on the spot. Same for Manolito y su Trabucu etc. Havana D'P's Carita Pasaporte was a huge cross genre hit in Europe and South America.

Salsa has been stuck in the same ol' same ol' time-warp for the past 30 years. Every other Music genre has evolved. Soul, R&B, Rock, Country, Jazz, Funk etc...interesting phenomena that Salsa more or less stayed where it is at, with US based DJ's still spinning the Nuyorican stuff from 20+ years ago.

The Cubans moved it along and the rest of the world and the ones in the know in the US have embraced it. I know from personal experience in the UK that they play both Salsa and Timba/Songo at Salsa venues. When there are more than one floor, a room will be dedicated to Cuban music. This is where it's happening, with everyone dancing with sheer joy and huge smiles on their faces, (name of the dance does not come not remotely come into it at all) whilst the Salsa room has dancers with serious "look at me" faces doing spins after spins. I have experienced same pattern in Holland, France, Spain and Italy.

As for the music I would say that it is Salsa that has the same formula whereas there are infinite variations for Timba. In fact, Timba has many similarities with Rumba; the clave, numerous coro lines, several pick up in tempo etc. I just did a quick search on my itunes and came up with close to 2000 Salsa tracks..I may as well archive them as I do not remember when I last played anyone of them.

Anyway my observation, your view may differ. Thats what makes the world go round!
Echale candela, p'afinar los cueros
User avatar
Derbeno
 
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby JohnnyConga » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:58 pm

Abakua/Jorge/Derbeno...... in this country Timba is only known amongst dancers and some musicians, not the general listening public...Tomas Cruz put together his "Timba All Stars" in Miami...over a year ago ...where are they now??..Hey It's all good..I know Cubans and others can dance all day to it..im just saying it's not part of the American music scene..(I talk with all kinds of musicians, and they have no idea what Timba is all about and don't really gravitate to it)..I know even for myself when Timba first came out ..it didnt make sense to me because they would 'pull out" the clave..and leave u hanging( but then I found out about the "gears" and how it worked in Timba)...yes it may be popular in certain corners of this country, and the world, but it's not taking over at all, here..and like Areito, Chaonda, and Songo, will be just another rhythmic form of Cuban music until another one comes along to replace it ...so enjoy it while u can...in New York they are struggling to keep what little Latin music scene there is left..and they bring bands straight from Cuba, because there arent any NY bands playing Timba, that I know of....It comes from Cuba, and most have no idea how it works. Once again ask anyone what is Timba..? and see if u can get a true explanation of it and how it works, with concepts and arranging applications. I can pull out Calixto Oviedos Book which explains what 'gears' are all about in Timba and how it functions. Now how that relates to the general public, good luck...I find it constantly challenging as a drummer for sure, and can always appreciate the 'rhythmic inventiveness' of Cuban percussionists ....
User avatar
JohnnyConga
 
Posts: 3825
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:58 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale,Fl/Miami

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby TONE74 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:26 pm

I agree JC, based on my experience here in the NYC area the only nationality other than Cuba that digs timba in the US is Peru. I went to a Manolito concert here with other Cubans and the Peruvians knew every word to the songs, we were surprised. Also timba as a music is not going away in Cuba anytime soon. It will continue to evolve because it is the "popular" music of Cuba...
User avatar
TONE74
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:12 pm

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby Kaban » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:43 pm

Derbano, Salsa is one of many Latin genre, and it's quit obvious there is still a demand for it. I stopped all together going to night clubs two years ago, family responsibilities, and people where packing the clubs for Salsa. Songo and Timba are great, but it's not a house hold name. I didn't mean this to turn into bad mouthing a certain music, Songo is not mainstream here; not a bad or good thing. Lets move on to going into detail of what exactly makes Songo or Timba? Enrich me...us
User avatar
Kaban
 
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:24 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby TONE74 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Theres a video on you tube called the history of songo with changuito explaining patterns etc. check it out...

As far as timba there is usually a drum set and two people playing keys. Each band has its own set up and the horns and other things vary. if you go on you tube you should be able to find videos so you can get an idea.

** my bad just saw Abakua posted the link on history of songo already.
User avatar
TONE74
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:12 pm

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby jorge » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:44 pm

Another factor is that there are very few salsa, merengue, bachata, ranchera or cumbia musicians in the US that are capable of playing most timba charts. Aside from the classically trained US musicians who also play jazz and popular latin music, plus a few outstanding natural talents like Giovanni Hidalgo or Jimmy Bosch, the level of musicianship required to play and improvise good timba is just beyond what we have here. Cuban timba musicians are trained in classical music, Afrocuban religious music, son, changui and everything in between and can play wickedly difficult charts like NG, Manolito, Irakere, and other top Cuban bands play, plus improvise in clave to those themes. Not many US musicians can do that, music training here is nowhere near as comprehensive as that in Cuba. Few US based salsa percussionists, bass players and pianists can play or hold a songo or timba rhythm, and even fewer can improvise within that. Even singing timba lead vocals and coros is different and has a different relation to clave than in salsa or other US based latin music.

Dancing to timba, songo or rumba is also, as I said in previous posts, very different than dancing to salsa or other US based latin music and most Latinos in the US are outside their comfort zone trying to learn to dance to Cuban music. Promotion of Cuban bands when on tour in the US is usually absolutely abysmal, and many of the top Cuban bands played to near empty clubs in NYC this past year, mainly because there was almost no media promotion and what there was was often wrong. In defense of those promoters who have tried to book Cuban bands, visa problems often make it almost impossible to do these bookings far in advance and really know which of the band members will be able to actually come. Frequently several of the top players in a band won't get visas and the rest will. So saying timba has not caught on in the US is pretty accurate with a few exceptions, but the underlying reasons why that is so are important to understand.

Bottom line, our US system of music education is far inferior to that in Cuba, when it comes to learning to play all types of music and improvise well. Some Juilliard professors who are virtuosos in classical or occasionally jazz don't even know what clave is. Most Berklee grads I have played with can't improvise in clave, although they could play Cuban charts. Faculty at less well known music schools, even worse. And the young musicians in the US who have the burning desire and the talent to really learn often can't afford to go to a top music school anyway. I know more than a few of those.
jorge
 
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby Quinto Governor II » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:55 pm

In Baltimore the salsa scene such that it is, now includes rueda, but it is danced to salsa and not timba. The steps are basically the usually salsa moves performed in the circular group/partner changing format as with rueda in Cuba, but that is the only similarity between the two. I doubt the dancer care about the Cuban way of dancing - let alone the music that it is danced to. I may ask the DJ why timba is never played, and if it is ever requested.
Yambu
User avatar
Quinto Governor II
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: Baltimore

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby TONE74 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:30 pm

They must care about the Cuban way of dancing to some degree since they are dancing rueda :D
User avatar
TONE74
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:12 pm

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby Kaban » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:14 pm

Cool, so now that we're done arguing if it’s popular or not; what is the fundamental difference between these genres, a drum set, a feel, two piano players?
User avatar
Kaban
 
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:24 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby pcastag » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:57 am

One of the things you should know about to understand the evolution and creation of songo is that it came out of the charanga band tradition. Salsa evloved from son, charanga is as different from son as salsa is to timba. Listen to some early van van and to some ritmo oriental, also check out some aragon and orquestra reve and you will instantly see where the songo feel derived from. Timba is totally different in that it's wide open, a lot funkier to me than straight up songo. Listen to some early van van, ritmo oriental and some of the earlier charanga bands. You'll get the picture. BTW no bongoceros in those bands.
PC
User avatar
pcastag
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:33 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby rhythmrhyme » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:04 am

pcastag wrote:One of the things you should know about to understand the evolution and creation of songo is that it came out of the charanga band tradition. Salsa evloved from son, charanga is as different from son as salsa is to timba. Listen to some early van van and to some ritmo oriental, also check out some aragon and orquestra reve and you will instantly see where the songo feel derived from. Timba is totally different in that it's wide open, a lot funkier to me than straight up songo. Listen to some early van van, ritmo oriental and some of the earlier charanga bands. You'll get the picture. BTW no bongoceros in those bands.


That's a great tip!
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
User avatar
rhythmrhyme
 
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:24 pm

Re: Songo Rhythm: where is it?

Postby Kaban » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:15 pm

Thanks for the information Pcastag.
User avatar
Kaban
 
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:24 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Previous

Return to Congas Technique, Rhythms and Exercises

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


cron