Songo Rhythm: where is it?

[Kaban]

Greetings to all,

One of my favorite rhythms is Songo, I like to play it, learn new variations, and practice it. However, it occurred to me tonight, I never notice it on the internet. I've watched many of bands over the internet with a conga player playing diffirent rhythms, but no one using Songo. Does anyone use this rhythm (outside of Cuba) for popular/rock/fusion music? Can someone give me a link of Songo being applied in the rhythm section please.

Kaban

[JohnnyConga]

HI Kaban..The rhythm Songo was created by long time timbale/drummer for Los Van Van "Changuito" it was created in the early 80's..so in this year of 2013 it's almost forgotten like the rhythm "Chaonda"...(how many here have heard of Chaonda?)
There are at least 9 variations of Songo from 2 drums to 5 drums..today they play Timba and there are new patterns, and 'manoteos'. most popular rhythms have a longer shelf life, ex Rumba...look up Changuito and Songo or Songo by Changuito...Im too lazy to look right now, hahaha...the reasons why the Cha cha cha and Mambo(now called Casino), Merengue, because they are "dance rhythms"...so if a rhythm doesnt have a dance attached to it, it doesn't last very long and there never was a dance called Songo either..

[Kaban]

Hey JC,

Most insightful, thank you; how did the Mambo become "Casino"?

Is anyone using the Songo rhythm, besides for Songo?

[JohnnyConga]

Mambo became Casino by the Cubans..in NYC Mambo became Salsa by the musicians ...era's of music bring about changes..so eventually the Cubans created their own term for Mambo and now it's called Casino and they also have "Rueda" another dance form, which includes couples dancing with other couples simultaneously ..Songo is used, but there are so many new Tumbaos now, Songo like "Chaonda" is old now...from the 80's...and new styles and rhythms are being created all the time..
same question anybody here ever hear of CHAONDA? and can u play it?...I hope this helps Kaban...I don't know how much u guys like to read but i HIGHLY recommend as i have said before the book by Ned Sublette..."From the First drums to the Mambo"-book one..600 pages filled with all the information you could want about Cuba,it's people and music..20 bucks can't beat it and well worth it ..unbelievable info...and u will learn New things about Cuba u never knew....
ps Like I said there are at least 9 variations of Songo(Tomas Cruz) shows all of them in his dvd...

[tamboricua]

Truco y Zaperoko is an Afrocaribbean fusion band from Puerto Rico that to this day still use Songo elements in plenty of their arrangements.

Take a look to the attched link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbXPg2beanI

In that particular tune they go from; Afro, to Rumba Guaguancó, to Plena, to Songo.

Enjoy!!!

JG

[pavloconga]

There's many versions of Songo.

Here's one by Pakito Baeza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb1RbeEw ... ults_video

and Panga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGWLmcpB ... 7143E400FB

[Derbeno]

Most Timba tracks has an element of Songo to them.

Pupy Pedroso in particular still likes to use Merensongo a lot. Unexpectedly perhaps even Juan Luis Guerra used it in this great laid back arrangement with a subtle political message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x_Zmt4S01s

[pcastag]

Johnny, you're half cuban Right? Time to take the trip bro! You will see things you can't get from a book nor the internet, nor the cubanos who live here. La Habana como dice los van Van, crazy, magic, locos por mi Habana. Incredible bro!

[Kaban]

Tamboricua thanks for sharing, that is most excellent music.

Derbeno I thank you too, that Songo rhythm is pretty cool, I have yet to study/attempt it.

Pavloconga I agree with you, I seen a lot of Songos, being played quite diffidently by everyone...I think it is a good thing.

It is a nice rhythm, it's too bad that it's not too popular in mainstream America.

[ABAKUA]

Just to clarify a bit of history, Songo was created in 1969.
Los Van Van were formed Dec 4th 1969, (Juan Formell left Orchesta Reve as MD and formed Los Van Van) at the time together with Blas Egues (original drummer) and Raul Cardenas "El Yulo" (congas) created the rhythmic foundations of Songo.

In 1970 Jose Luis Quintana replaces Blas Egues and it is here that Changuito continues the development started by Juan Formell, Blas Egues and Raul Cardenas and greatly expands the parameters of Songo, introducing revolutionary advanced technique for Timbal/Drums and Congas.
If interested, here is DCI release: History of Songo - complete https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl2Wrzgj7zM

Throughout the 80's and 90's Puerto Rican powerhouse bands Batacumbele and Zaperoko also did great things with Songo.

While mainstream US latin style is 'salsa' it is not surprising Songo is not commonly heard nor played in 'mainstream' salsa within the US.
In Cuba Songo continues to evolve everywhere, aside from Van Van continuing to evolve, Pupy same, also Suave Tumbao, so many more, but in particular with somewhat newcomer on the scene Maykel Blanco y Su Salsa Mayor. great band, caught them several times during my stays in Havana.
Here is a recent example of Songo from their most recent CD release which features collaborations from singers from Pachito Alonso, Pupy, Bamboleo and Reve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEauu7QlYc

Some older tracks, still popular though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohgk7yllB8w
and one of my personal fave's by the band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aYiTsRClcI

Songo forms are played a fair bit here in Sydney, along with some of the other cities, Cuban styles are alive and strong here, most leading musicians preferring to play the more intricate Cuban style repertoires as it is somewhat felt that US Salsa, while still cool n all, simply has not evolved with the times as much as Cuban styles. No offence intended.

Songo is alive and well and very popular throughout all of Europe, Asia and Sth & Central America. Leading popular Cuban bands such as Havana D'Primera, Pupy Y Los Que Son Son, Reve y Su Charangon, Maykel Blanco, Los Van Van, Adalberto Alvarez, La Charanga Habanera and many many others are in constant high demand and touring these nations frequently. Coming out of Peru is pretty cool band Barbaro Fines y Su Mayimbe aka BFM, also making their mark in the Timba/Songo genres and have already toured Cuba, Europe, Sth America and recently a few US cities also.

Some interesting somewhat new bands making their mark in the US (from Miami) and getting around the globe a bit now over recent years are 'Timbalive' and 'Demanana' both use Songo and Songo elements in their music (among many other styles predominantly Cuban)
Example of 'Demanana' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsfBeM2DsNM
Example of 'Timbalive' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7BdXmVAt24(original version by Los Van Van)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsOWJA9qS8o

There are others, one cannot go past Pedrito Martinez Group, however I feel this group uses far more experimental elements, fused to create their own unique sound, elements of many Cuban genres, Jazz, Funk, Classical and more.
I was more so referring to full size more 'traditionally Songo/Timba' bands making their mark.

Songo today continues to evolve out of Cuba, I personally picked up a few new grooves which continued to develop in the year since I had last been in Havana. Its amazing to see the progress and development, it had been less than 12 months since I had last been in Havana and there was clear evolution in that small time.
Of course, no traditions are lost, the old is preserved and the wealth of knowledge is passed on to a cup which never over fills.

[JohnnyConga]

Once again it's hard to maintain a rhythm that doesn't have a 'dance' attached to it,ex Casino etc...but the Cuban bands have been able to somehow incorporate it into the new music of today..if only for a section of a tune..Yes I am 'half' Cuban...on my Fathers side.from Pinar del Rio/Los Palacios...I plan on visiting the island in the next year to see family I have never met..

[rhythmrhyme]

Fantastic post Abakua - thanks for your efforts!

[ABAKUA]

Casino is a dance style uniquely Cuban, evolved from Son. it's how they dance to timba/cuban salsa/son etc. it is not a rhythm that is played. Same with rueda, only it's danced in groups. Casino is not linked to just songo or any pattern as Mozambique, Mambo, Pilon etc was, its everything.
In Havana , try and dance 'salsa' and you'll get pointed at and laughed let alone you won't be able to dance with anyone as the timing of steps will also clash with the push & pull. They even dance Casino to salsa music from the US, Puerto Rico etc.

Incorporate songo? JC, I think you are missing the fact it is songo, you are not recognising the evolution of it, it's all songo, not just sections . Don't listen for your traditional songo conga patterns, it's much deeper than that.

[Kaban]

Abakua, thank you for taking the time to share your vast knowledge, and the Youtube links (can't wait to sit down this weekend). You stated "Don't listen for your traditional songo conga patterns, it's much deeper than that," can you please expand on it, I am ignorant to Songo, and want to learn more?

I would like to explain my title "Songo Rhythm: where is it?"; I am from the United States, city of Chicago, and Songo is not bigger(over here) then Salsa, Merengue, Bachata, Banda, and Cumbia, hence my question. The United States is also rich in culture, music, and sports; thanks to the diaspora of Africans, Hispanics, Asians, and Europeans. Also, just because it's not popular here, doesn't mean it is bad music, nor should it be held against the vast number of talented musicans.

Godspeed,
Kaban

[JohnnyConga]

Gracias Abakua....no problem Bro..i wasn't there for the r-evolution of the Songo, hahaha.....I got it in bits and pieces..we still have an embargo on Cuban music, and when i was collecting Cuban music in the 70's 80's it was 20 bucks an album, and then there were no more....now we have the CD's but I haven't bought any Cuban music in years...as a DJ i get them in bits and pieces here in the states...we seem to only hear the same bands here..Afro Cuban All Stars, El Medico de la Salsa, Los Van Van and some new younger bands coming straight from Cuba...but Timba is not catching on here...(and it's not a favorite of mine ..i find it very challenging of course and it's great to watch...but after the 3rd Timba tune i know the formula and for me it doesnt do it for me)..once again no dance called "Timba"...it's a "style/form"...in Cuba they could dance to it all day long they invented it...so it doesnt go over well here...even Guarapachangeo in Miami is frowned on ..."it's not Rumba"...to them...out of touch, out of sight, out of mind...and I guess im a bit also...Im only familiar with the 9 variations of Songo by Tomas Cruz..