congaplace.com

I'd like to compile examples of patterns used in rumba that are not what beginners are usually taught as the standard patterns. This would include instances of say son clave played against a guaguanco, or rumba clave played against a yambu, as well as variations on the standard gua-gua and bell patterns for rumba. The first example is a columbia that starts out in the standard 6/8 bell and then changes at 56 seconds into the video. The player seems to take a few bars before settling into his pattern, and no one seems to be bothered. If you find other examples of patterns that are different than the standards I would appreciate if you would post them here. It would be a good learning tool to have them in one place. Thanks!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9THrYieh ... DF&index=6

very nice quality recordings great playing thank you

I like that whole playlist. I have shared it with different folks to give them an idea of what a Rumba is like in it's natural setting.

salzfaas wrote:very nice quality recordings great playing thank you

QG wrote:

QG wrote:
I just shared the link. Thank guarachon63 the original youtube poster. He is also a member of this forum, and one of the best resources for all things Afro-Cuban on the Internet. Thanks! guarachon63, and while I'm at it all the others here who are also great resources, and contributors - ABAKUA. JC (Johnny Conga), etc...

roberthelpus wrote:I like that whole playlist. I have shared it with different folks to give them an idea of what a Rumba is like in it's natural setting.

QG wrote:
Yes! That is an awesome playlist. One thing that amazes me is the amount of variation in the songs, as a result of the improvising by the lead singers - I would guess. I would recognize some songs at the beginning but the lines quickly changed from the versions I am familiar with.

BTW Thanks! to all the rumberos and rumberas who allow us to witness and learn from their awesome talent and creativity.

This video has rumba clave superimposed over the recording at the beginning for about 1 bar then son clave is heard the rest of the recording. It hard to say what was played originally as this has been edited a lot. I love this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTVl293RViY


Here is a Yambu using rumba clave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAHGwOZ3gU0



Here is Clave y Guaguanco using the standard gua-gua pattern, or what is also the clave pattern used for yambu in Matanzas, as the clave for a columbia. The gua-gua pattern used is a variation from the more common one used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7EqbXSYCo

In this one, in the yambu at the beginning, the clave is a variation on the son clave but it uses 6 stokes. The 3rd and 4th appear to be 16th notes (correct me if I'm wrong), which adds a little more funk to the pattern. Was wondering if I was hearing a stroke from the gua-gua pattern as part of the clave, but I can't hear any other strokes of a gua-gua pattern, if it is there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rJX1fpyMos


BTW there is a clip at the end of this video of that famous footage of Afro-Cuban de Matanzas with a young Delores Perez Herrera doing a rumba at a train depot.

Quinto Governor II wrote:This video has rumba clave superimposed over the recording at the beginning for about 1 bar then son clave is heard the rest of the recording. It hard to say what was played originally as this has been edited a lot. I love this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTVl293RViY

No, the rumba clave is the main clave played through the entire song by one of the group members. That is the first clave that starts the song and has a low pitch almost identical with the cata so you don't hear it clearly once the cata starts. Someone else, not a group member, is playing along on a high pitched clave, mistakenly playing son clave. It is off time (sloppy not crossed) and doesn't fit, sticks out like a sore thumb. The guy is probably a foreigner with money. You can see the guilty dude at 3:44 in the blue shirt in front of the green and yellow drum.

jorge wrote:
No, the rumba clave is the main clave played through the entire song by one of the group members. That is the first clave that starts the song and has a low pitch almost identical with the cata so you don't hear it clearly once the cata starts. Someone else, not a group member, is playing along on a high pitched clave, mistakenly playing son clave. It is off time (sloppy not crossed) and doesn't fit, sticks out like a sore thumb. The guy is probably a foreigner with money. You can see the guilty dude at 3:44 in the blue shirt in front of the green and yellow drum.

I once had the opportunity to ask Amado Dedeu (Director of Clave y Guaguancó) about this recording that uses both "son" and "rumba" clave simultaneously.

This track "Solavalla" is the last track of a (long-time) forthcoming CD of theirs which recounts the songs used in the historic "battles" between the two coros de clave "Los Roncos" (led by Ignacio Piñeiro) from Pueblo Nuevo and "El Paso Franco" from Carraguao/Pilar founded by Elías Arosteguí, which took place some time in the 1920's I suppose. The groups would compose songs that made fun of, challenged, and provoked the other (aka "puyas"). Amado learned these songs from his mentor Santos Ramírez ("El Niño") himself, who was a member of El Paso Franco and also led the re-formation of the comparsa "El Alacrán" in the late 1930's. Many songs that are popular in the rumba repertoire today come out of this phenomenon, from "Los Beodos" (Not composed by Lorenzo Martínez); "Cuando tu, tu desengaño veas" (which contains the line, "y a ti, te digo no te atrevas/a provocar más nunca la ira de los Roncos..."; and "Si a la hora de cantar la rumba no hay...".

After a while, the "battle" apparently had gotten out of control and started to cause problems, so this song "Solavaya" was written as a declaration of truce:

Dos pensamientos, dos coros distintos
¿quién plagio?
Una vez yo dije
que si para poderme divertir
tenía que armarme
como si fuera para la guerra
era preferible señores
no rumbear más

Pues no queremos llevar
a nuestro hogar tristezas
Ni que la prensa mercenaria escriba
con rótulos crecidos:
"En una fiesta de gente de color,
muertos y heridos."

Ni soy la morralla
ni tienes que huirme
Ni tienes que decirme que solavaya

Aquí quien se porte mal que pa' su casa se vaya

(Coro:) Ay Díos, ay Díos, ¡solavaya, solavaya!

As I recall, throughout the CD one "group" plays cajon and uses "son" clave (as rumba was originally played) and the other uses tumbadoras and "rumba" clave. For this final song of reconciliation Amado had both "groups" sing and both styles of clave are used, to represent the reunion. (I can't really get used to it either but hey, artistic license, don't try this at home! )

I think that segment you point out at 3:44 is actually just edited in from another rumba, the audio in this video is what was recorded for the CD, and I suppose the video in the studio was shot during the recording of same.

saludos
Barry

QG wrote:
Thanks! guys for the correction and the history.

guarachon63 wrote:

jorge wrote:
No, the rumba clave is the main clave played through the entire song by one of the group members. That is the first clave that starts the song and has a low pitch almost identical with the cata so you don't hear it clearly once the cata starts. Someone else, not a group member, is playing along on a high pitched clave, mistakenly playing son clave. It is off time (sloppy not crossed) and doesn't fit, sticks out like a sore thumb. The guy is probably a foreigner with money. You can see the guilty dude at 3:44 in the blue shirt in front of the green and yellow drum.

I once had the opportunity to ask Amado Dedeu (Director of Clave y Guaguancó) about this recording that uses both "son" and "rumba" clave simultaneously.

This track "Solavalla" is the last track of a (long-time) forthcoming CD of theirs which recounts the songs used in the historic "battles" between the two coros de clave "Los Roncos" (led by Ignacio Piñeiro) from Pueblo Nuevo and "El Paso Franco" from Carraguao/Pilar founded by Elías Arosteguí, which took place some time in the 1920's I suppose. The groups would compose songs that made fun of, challenged, and provoked the other (aka "puyas"). Amado learned these songs from his mentor Santos Ramírez ("El Niño") himself, who was a member of El Paso Franco and also led the re-formation of the comparsa "El Alacrán" in the late 1930's. Many songs that are popular in the rumba repertoire today come out of this phenomenon, from "Los Beodos" (Not composed by Lorenzo Martínez); "Cuando tu, tu desengaño veas" (which contains the line, "y a ti, te digo no te atrevas/a provocar más nunca la ira de los Roncos..."; and "Si a la hora de cantar la rumba no hay...".

After a while, the "battle" apparently had gotten out of control and started to cause problems, so this song "Solavaya" was written as a declaration of truce:

Dos pensamientos, dos coros distintos
¿quién plagio?
Una vez yo dije
que si para poderme divertir
tenía que armarme
como si fuera para la guerra
era preferible señores
no rumbear más

Pues no queremos llevar
a nuestro hogar tristezas
Ni que la prensa mercenaria escriba
con rótulos crecidos:
"En una fiesta de gente de color,
muertos y heridos."

Ni soy la morralla
ni tienes que huirme
Ni tienes que decirme que solavaya

Aquí quien se porte mal que pa' su casa se vaya

(Coro:) Ay Díos, ay Díos, ¡solavaya, solavaya!

As I recall, throughout the CD one "group" plays cajon and uses "son" clave (as rumba was originally played) and the other uses tumbadoras and "rumba" clave. For this final song of reconciliation Amado had both "groups" sing and both styles of clave are used, to represent the reunion. (I can't really get used to it either but hey, artistic license, don't try this at home! )

I think that segment you point out at 3:44 is actually just edited in from another rumba, the audio in this video is what was recorded for the CD, and I suppose the video in the studio was shot during the recording of same.

saludos
Barry

guarachon63 wrote:I once had the opportunity to ask Amado Dedeu (Director of Clave y Guaguancó) about this recording that uses both "son" and "rumba" clave simultaneously.

As I recall, throughout the CD one "group" plays cajon and uses "son" clave (as rumba was originally played) and the other uses tumbadoras and "rumba" clave. For this final song of reconciliation Amado had both "groups" sing and both styles of clave are used, to represent the reunion. (I can't really get used to it either but hey, artistic license, don't try this at home! )

I think that segment you point out at 3:44 is actually just edited in from another rumba, the audio in this video is what was recorded for the CD, and I suppose the video in the studio was shot during the recording of same.

saludos
Barry

Hard to believe Amado and Amadito purposely let those 2 claves and cata play together and kept them all in the final mix. It sounds so sloppy, especially in the beginning minute or so. Son clave and rumba clave can sound good together but both clave players have to have extremely good timing and be listening carefully to each other and the cata. Even a couple milliseconds off and hits that should be simultaneous sound like flams and sound very sloppy. Maybe the peacemaking message of the song and the political/artistic importance of having the 2 claves together trumped their rhythmic pride, I don't know.

Guarachon, I defer to your more firsthand information. By the way you have a really sharp ear/mind for the lyrics, you got a lot of the words I couldn't make out even with headphones on. Amazing. I will stick to skins, boxes and sticks.

jorge wrote:
By the way you have a really sharp ear/mind for the lyrics, you got a lot of the words I couldn't make out even with headphones on. Amazing.

I will let you in on my dirty little secret: I asked Amado for the lyrics. Even better than headphones

Barry

Yeah, a likely story. And the other 500+ rumbas you and your crew have transcribed? My comment still stands.