Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during solos

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Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during solos

Postby Doc Washboard » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:43 pm

I'm at the point in my development as a drummer that I can start thinking about soloing. I can't afford lessons, so I'm trying to sort some stuff out by watching all the videos I can. This Giovanni solo,for example, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6V8S8U9iLs) is one that I've watched a lot, mainly because he's keeping most of it at a nearly-human level of complexity and you can clearly see what's going on with his hands.

It seems that you can generally break this solo down into three types of drumming: chop-busting riffs, melody, and timekeeping. The first two are easy to understand, if not easy to replicate; right now I'm trying to psyche out the whole timekeeping thing. He's using a combination of muffs, touches, heel-tips, fingernail taps and slaps--that much is obvious. What I can't figure out is the underlying logic behind it. Is there a pattern that he's following, or is he just putting everything together in a more-or-less random way in order to get to the next round of chop-busters and melody?

How do you begin to put together a bag of timekeeping riffs that sounds good and makes sense?
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:11 pm

To begin understanding what Giovanni does you should
get Gio's instructional videos that came out in the mid
to late 90's. I know ever since those videos Gio's playing
have evolved a great deal. I am pretty sure he has added
tabla playing techniques to this arsenal, and much more.
I hope this helps and good luck.
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby windhorse » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:17 pm

Seems like every great player uses ghost notes both as "hocket fillers" and "downbeat feel keepers".
Check this quintero out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jon4tfuozedsfgh/greatrumba.mp4?dl=0.
He's got a super consistent technique, sings, and solos, all while ghost noting for consistency.

If you need to feed your "inner math-mind" have a look at David PeƱalosa's http://www.amazon.com/Rumba-Quinto-David-nmn-Pe%C3%B1alosa/dp/1453713131/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425143789&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=quinto+dave+Pe%C3%B1alosa.
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby Derbeno » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:30 pm

Concept of using a song as rhythm and melody as the foundation. A more manageable approach imho


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u8Cpyjk8iA
Echale candela, p'afinar los cueros
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby windhorse » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:29 pm

Derbeno wrote:Concept of using a song as rhythm and melody as the foundation. A more manageable approach imho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u8Cpyjk8iA


Yes! Another good method to embellishment on a theme.

Attached is the theme song to Green Acres.. Makes for a great quinto phrase!
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grnacres.jpg
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby RitmoBoricua » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:47 am

Doc Washboard wrote:I'm at the point in my development as a drummer that I can start thinking about soloing. I can't afford lessons, so I'm trying to sort some stuff out by watching all the videos I can. This Giovanni solo,for example, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6V8S8U9iLs) is one that I've watched a lot, mainly because he's keeping most of it at a nearly-human level of complexity and you can clearly see what's going on with his hands.


You need to take a realistic look at your level of playing. Are you a beginner? Can you play basic patterns/rhythms
like for example tumbao. I tell you what if you are not playing at a real high level you need to forget about trying
to figure out Giovanni's solos etc. Giovanni make stuff that is impossible for most of us look ridiculously easy.
Giovanni is one in billion kind of player, even pretty good professionals can't play what Giovanni plays. IMHO you
should focus in learning and master the basic/foundation stuff in one drum and go from there. Realistically all you
need at the most is two conga drums to play in most situations.

Check this video out. Raul played great stuff on this video but not where near the level of Giovanni. Giovanni
is on a league of his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNJS2TaMfMc


Now Bobby Sanabria a great educator and player have some pretty good instructional videos for mere mortals {most of all us}.
Check them out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m33gcGsjo0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NGTO7z-t3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPrQctolAxs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gihNVuDY-OQ
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby JohnnyConga » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:47 am

Here is what I know about a 'solo' versus 'improvisation"(what Giovanni is doing).... a 'solo' is while in a band setting and rehearsed..you know how many bars long it is, and know when your coming out of it...A 'solo' should comprise of 'attached phrases'(repeated in 2's and 3's or even 5's) always landing on the one at the end of each of the 'solo phrases'.. A 'solo' should also have a 'beginning, a middle, and an end"....if u start at the top, there is no where to go....now 'improvisation' is when you are 'alone/solo' that you get to play what ever you want, the way you know how ...anyone can 'improvise' but not everyone can 'solo'.....time in playing is either you have it or u don't, if u don't , then you have to work it out to the point where time for you has become 'internalized' and your time is above average...No teacher can give you time...that you have to work on an individual basis...
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Re: Trying to understand timekeeping/placeholding during sol

Postby windhorse » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:01 am

JohnnyConga wrote:No teacher can give you time...that you have to work on an individual basis...


Well said Johnny.. Metronome = fundamental.
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