mounting flat skins

[jomo_sundiata]

I am in the process of mounting a flat skin(texas steer) on an LP Aspire drum(11 in.). When tucking the skin between the flesh hoop and the rim(comfort curve), I'm having a hard time getting the skin and the flesh hoop to fit all of the way inside the rim. I didn't account for the fact that the skin thickens upon soaking. My next move would be to look into getting another rim, one of the traditional ones with the V-shaped hooks. But I was wondering if anyone else on this forum has experienced this, and if so, what was your remedy?

thank you.

[bongosnotbombs]

I do not think it is worth getting a new rim for an LP Aspire drum.

Those come with pretty thin skins. Your sounds like it is too thick,
you might have soaked it too much as well, making it even thicker.

Do a search on this forum, there are several posts with advice and
pictures on how to mount skins more easily.

[Isaac]

The LP Aspire's comfort rim doesn't allow much room within for a thicker or
better hide...same goes with the Aspire Bongos.
switching to a comfort rim will help a bit, but keep in mind
the Aspire is not so strong to accommodate a much stronger head,
but it can be done. Going to a slightly thicker head is not
so much the solution as switching to a same thickness
cow or mule skin, which will fit. The original stock heads
are water buffalo...the wrong sound.

Isaac
Sales Rep / Tradicion / JCR Percussion
Mule skins, Bells & More
tradicionpercussion@gmail.com

[No.2-1820]

Hey Isaac, what do you have in the way of mule skins at the moment ? I have a valje quinto that has needed a skin for a while but I've been broke, I still am incidentally but I can't look at it sitting there much longer !

I can't tell you how much faith I have in your judgment, I've attached the .jpg of the mule you sent me for my requinto a while back that just seems to get better every time I sit down to it, exactly as you predicted when you told me how mules take longer to break in but the results are worth the wait. I need to step up because the drum is a requinto and I have quite large hands but I just cant get the same sounds from my other drums now, I can play it tuned high and it is sharp and percussive or I can tune it down and get beautiful deep open tones that my valje conga with a steer can't compete with, it's not that the others sound bad, it's just different. I love the sound of my valje conga but the skin is so old, possibly the original, that it's not producing the volume like the requinto without striking it harder.

So I guess i need one skin for sure but two would be nice but let's see what you have, I would like something similar to this, i.e. that cloudy, almost greyish color rather than the redder kind that I prefer for the larger tumba drums, this kind seem to have a dryer more percussive, rumba slap.

Cheers, Barrie

[Isaac]

Hi Barrie,
I'm happy that skin is working out for you... and will continue to improve over the years.
I have a few skins I've set aside on hand. ..and get more twice a year. The next shipment is due soon.
Please post a pic of the Valje you're looking to replace. I like to put some thought into
what the appropriate skin will be.
The Valje can't accomodate too thick a skin....and again patience and practice
is the key to softening up and breaking in a mule skin. Many rushing to judge them
from day one are missing the mule experience. The easier volume will at least come
back immediately. I usually work in a discount for repeat customers, as I understand
we're all going through some rough economic times.
Everyday though I see young shoppers
shelling out big bucks for ipods that don't seem to last that long. As musicians
we at least owe it to ourselves to improve our own sound - we are the few guardians
of natural non quantized electronic beats. ( not that there's anything wrong with
electronics as well)
~ ISAAC

[No.2-1820]

Hey Isaac, here's the picture of the conga, the quinto is the matching drum to this, identical but for size. This head has really been a good fit for this drum but unfortunately due to age and wear is sounding a little flat. As i said before I really like the powdery colored mules for quinto or conga as I like the slaps they produce, I've had the kind on my quinto above and you sent me a beautiful golden, powdery one before that would look lovely on the valje too (aesthetics are a nice bonus for me!), I've attached a photo of that too, it's on the hembre of these bongos.

Cheers and good to talk to you,

Barrie

[jomo_sundiata]

but keep in mind
the Aspire is not so strong to accommodate a much stronger head,

When you say the Aspire is not so strong to accomodate a stronger head, are you speaking of the hardware?, the wood?, can you elaborate on this statement?

Also, I soaked the skin for about 8hrs, which was the recommended time suggested by a youtube video(martincongahead), as well as other instructional sources.(artdrum.com, musiciansfriend.com tech tips page) But my question is, in the event that a skin is soaked for too long and becomes thicker, does it compromise the sound? Can it still be used at all? How long is too long?

thank you

[bongosnotbombs]

I think 8 hours is much too long, I soak mine between 2-4 hours. Your skin might
have soaked up too much water. It just makes it that much harder to put one.

The Aspire hardware is very weak. I have bent Aspire bongo lugs back in the day, i think
the Aspire conga lugs are pretty much the same.

[seisporocho1]

Jomo,

If you soaked the skin too long ("too long" meaning the skin is no longer absorbing water and is losing color), then it is a possibility that once mounted and dried, the skin's sound has been compromised. Since its natural oils have been replaced by water, once it dries, it no longer has the same elasticity and thus giving you a dry possibly even ringy sound. It affects resonance and depth of tone.
The solution then would be to apply some kind of natural oil once it is mounted and dry. Manteca de corojo or as I've recently learned works really well, olive oil. You can even unmount the skin and submerge it fully in olive oil for 1 or 2 days, then re-mount. Don't worry about it being too much, it'll just reach maximum absorbency with the oil and not lose its shape at all.
Of course, ideally you shouldn't have to go thru this if you soak the skin only as long as needed. I usually soak it (depending on hide and thickness) 3-4 hours. I also check on its status every hour to make sure I remove it from the water when it is malleable enough to mount.
Hope this helps.

6x8

[jomo_sundiata]

Jomo,

If you soaked the skin too long ("too long" meaning the skin is no longer absorbing water and is losing color), then it is a possibility that once mounted and dried, the skin's sound has been compromised. Since its natural oils have been replaced by water, once it dries, it no longer has the same elasticity and thus giving you a dry possibly even ringy sound. It affects resonance and depth of tone.
The solution then would be to apply some kind of natural oil once it is mounted and dry. Manteca de corojo or as I've recently learned works really well, olive oil. You can even unmount the skin and submerge it fully in olive oil for 1 or 2 days, then re-mount. Don't worry about it being too much, it'll just reach maximum absorbency with the oil and not lose its shape at all.
Of course, ideally you shouldn't have to go thru this if you soak the skin only as long as needed. I usually soak it (depending on hide and thickness) 3-4 hours. I also check on its status every hour to make sure I remove it from the water when it is malleable enough to mount.
Hope this helps.

6x8

6/8, that was very informative, and interesting. gracias.

BnB, you are right, the hardware is questionable, I bent my rim some time ago, so it was about due for a change. I even took a pair of pliers to it a couple days ago, to see if it would help the situation. No dice. I bent it back into shape but it still didn't fit. As far as the lugs are concerned, I had replaced the original ones some time ago, with some more sturdy ones. At any rate, I ended up getting another rim, traditional style, for $25 bucks. The Aspire rim just wasn't gonna cut it. At this point, the deed is done, I'm just waiting for the skin to dry. When I originally tried to mount the skin, I had already soaked it for about 7 hours. The skin had dried by the time I went for second try, after I had bought the new rim. So I ended up soaking it AGAIN for about 5 hrs. Based on what you guys are saying, I think I overdid it, so I may end up having to go through the oil soaking process. Olive oil is pretty easy to get. But, what is Manteca de corojo, and where do I get it?

thank you

[seisporocho1]

Manteca de corojo is Palm Oil. You can get it at a Botanica or internet.

6x8

[lpcongaplayer]

Jomo,

If you soaked the skin too long ("too long" meaning the skin is no longer absorbing water and is losing color), then it is a possibility that once mounted and dried, the skin's sound has been compromised. Since its natural oils have been replaced by water, once it dries, it no longer has the same elasticity and thus giving you a dry possibly even ringy sound. It affects resonance and depth of tone.
The solution then would be to apply some kind of natural oil once it is mounted and dry. Manteca de corojo or as I've recently learned works really well, olive oil. You can even unmount the skin and submerge it fully in olive oil for 1 or 2 days, then re-mount. Don't worry about it being too much, it'll just reach maximum absorbency with the oil and not lose its shape at all.
Of course, ideally you shouldn't have to go thru this if you soak the skin only as long as needed. I usually soak it (depending on hide and thickness) 3-4 hours. I also check on its status every hour to make sure I remove it from the water when it is malleable enough to mount.
Hope this helps.

6x8

Is it helpful or a good idea to rub some olive on skins every once in a while anyways for lubrication? Especially in dry climates?

[No.2-1820]

I steal my wife's very expensive pure Fiji coconut oil moisturizer for my hands most times before I sit down to play then dream I'm playing on a beach somewhere exotic with a mojito at my side.

[seisporocho1]

lpcongaplayer,

Depends on the skin...but in short: sure.
Its good to keep your skins with the right balance of moisture and elasticity. Some skins come with their natural oils deeply imbedded in their fiber. So those types won't need to be treated very often at all. My experience is that in dry climates, skins suffer. If you notice you're losing a lot of sustain in your tone, your skin might b drying up too much and it's time for a treatment. You don't want to do it too often cause you could lose quality of slaps and tone brightness.
The olice oil treatment I mention above is something some of us learned from El Greco and his way of treating his mule skins. It works great but it doesn't necessarily have to be that extreme. If you oil your skin regularly (only if it needs it for real) then Palm oil or even Shea butter works fine. Rubbing it in with your hands.
So if you live in a dry climate, keep an eye for loss of sustain and discoloration of the skin. Might tend to go pale if really dry.
Hope this helps.
6x8

[Mike]

lpcongaplayer,

Depends on the skin...but in short: sure.
Its good to keep your skins with the right balance of moisture and elasticity. Some skins come with their natural oils deeply imbedded in their fiber. So those types won't need to be treated very often at all. My experience is that in dry climates, skins suffer. If you notice you're losing a lot of sustain in your tone, your skin might b drying up too much and it's time for a treatment. You don't want to do it too often cause you could lose quality of slaps and tone brightness.
The olice oil treatment I mention above is something some of us learned from El Greco and his way of treating his mule skins. It works great but it doesn't necessarily have to be that extreme. If you oil your skin regularly (only if it needs it for real) then Palm oil or even Shea butter works fine. Rubbing it in with your hands.
So if you live in a dry climate, keep an eye for loss of sustain and discoloration of the skin. Might tend to go pale if really dry.
Hope this helps.
6x8

6x8 is right, an oil cure might be good, but I would not recommend just any skin for this treatment.

Compare the before and after-effect with El Greco´s mule skins:

And here two finished drums. Note the nice dark colour after marinating for a week in olive oil:

As I said, sometimes rubbing some oil into the skin might do. In my case, the skins looked really discoloured after mounting, and the oiling process gave them the round ´n´warm tone I was after.

Just my two cents
-Mike