Cure for ringing shell

[oshkoshrhythm]

Hi all, Happy to have found this group, I have been reading for a little while now and am very impressed by the quality info and conga camaraderie found here.

My experience is mostly as a recreational drum circler turned professional drum circle facilitator. Also, for the past 4 years I have played often with a Rock/Funk type band. I have been playing drums for around 20 years, mostly self taught, with a few good lessons and workshops thrown in. I consider my technique good but maybe not polished.

I just received an awesome set of handcarved Hare wood (West African) congas. While the set is a beautiful sight for the eyes, I was disappointed in the sound. They ring. The heads are American steer. I decided to tackle the quinto first and tried the solution found on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYQujazVBQQ
While it did seem to solve the problem while the head was off (as described in the video), when I reinstalled the head it rings again. Maybe slightly less.
While I had the head off, I sang into the shell. I read a long time ago that master djembe carvers do this to get a preview of the sound the shell will offer when complete. I started doing this and have developed experience of a shells relative potential. I should say I am more of a rebuilder/repairer of djembe shells than a builder or carver. So, when I sang into this shell - I could hear a definite ring. From this I am assuming that the primary cause of the ringing is the shell. Sound reasonable?

If this is the case, can I expect much improvement from a Mule skin. From what I have read here I see some saying yes and some no. Also a little concerned about the tough on the hands claims. But I spent a fair amount on these drums and would really like to get them sounding as good as they look, even if I have to toughen up my mitts. I am now considering Muleskin, specifically:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4019
I am a little leery of this guy only because he wants payment Western Union. Has anyone ordered from him? The skins look awesome and I would rather pay more for the quality but have heard that there is no recourse once payment is made by WU.

In the mean time I intend to try the weatherstripping on the bottom of skin to see if this works. I'll try and get some pix of these beautys and let you know what happens.

Can anyone explain why solid shells seem to have this problem more than staved shells? I base that only on researching on this forum and other places online. Also, I noticed that the mounting bolts for the brackets (not sure of proper terminology, but the brackets that the lugs connect to) stick out past the nuts on the inside of the shell around an inch or more. Could this have any effect on the ringing? It is stainless hardware.

[Jerry Bembe]

Have you got any pictures of these drums to post? It will be helpful to make suggestions if we know what you have.

There are previous postings by Congalou and others that addressthis shell ringing issue. A solid shell, I have been told by Mantino, is more resonant than stave built drums (like a marimba key is a solid wood not plywood).

My favorite method for eliminating shell ringing is to attach a string across the inside of the shell attached to the tuning hardware. Then a shirt, cloth or paper towel can be laid across or clipped to the string inside the shell cavity.

I find this eliminates the overtones and the fundamental tone is unaffected.

Someother members of this site glue sponge pieces to the shell interior.

There is more than one way to skin a cat here.

Happy drumming

[oshkoshrhythm]

Here is a quick one. I'll post more in a bit. Thanks, I had read and forgot about the sponge idea.
Does it matter where it gets glued? I'm guessing a few inches below head.

[Jerry Bembe]

Nice looking drum. Looks like a Motherland or Skullworks solid shell conga.

I would first remove the head and tung oil the interior and exterior. This can help with th cracking issues with solid shells.

Then attach a string to the interior bolts on opposite sides. Just loosten up the nuts on the interior and wrap a string across the interior. Lay a cloth or clip to the string and that's it.

The sponge method is more complex method. This is not advisable because a solid shell drum should be oiled regularly. If this oiling does not occur then then there will be cracks to deal with later.

[oshkoshrhythm]

Here are a few more pix.

[oshkoshrhythm]

Thanks Jerry,
DrumSkulls -
I did use a med. dishtowel but I'm thinking something a little larger. The dishtowel seems to do some good but not totally. I'll play around with that and see what happens.

Good point about the sponge idea hindering oiling. BTW DrumSkull did oil the shells, cant remember what he said they used, but it smells a bit like shea butter.

[ABAKUA]

Have you tried a small amount of gaffa tape, in a cros centre of skin (underside) ? This normally works well on those synthetic skins, which sound terrible and ring alot.

[GuruPimpi]

Oshkosh!

Welcome in this place of true knowledge. You have a beautiful set of congas indeed. When i put sponge around the drum, i glued it from the bottom, cause i was lazy and was just exploring my idea. It worked well, even too much, so i put later smaller pieces around the shell, a bit lower from the middle of the drum. During the time sponges fell off and the ringing was gone too...

Enjoy the drums!

PimpS

[Marcus]

On some drums shells I got years ago, I took long Zip Tie plastic strips and made a double or triple ply--then wrapped black electrical tap around the hoop. Diameter of the hoop is about 3 inches extra each than the outside diameter of the drum. Then wrap strips of cotton cloth just like wrapping a crown or bottom ring in rope tuned shells.

Then fold the hoop in half so you have an arc and then fold it again. Place in shell and it sort of springs out and hugs the sides. Hard to explain but work with and it does hold. If the ringing persists then just wrap another layer of cloth and place back in the shell. Keep going until you achieve the balance you are looking for.

Don't know much about acoustics but in electrical world the high frequency component of current gathers around the outside diameter of the conductor-called skin effect. I would think that ringing is high frequency and may travel along the inside of the shell were as tones and bases bounce inside the shell. Just a theory!!

So you have the size of the hoop and the thickness of the hoop hugging the inside of the shell. Worked for me.

....marcus

[oshkoshrhythm]

Thanks marcus, I actually have some of those zip ties around here somewhere, I'll give that a shot.

I have thought about the weatherstripping or tape on the underside of the head, but am hesitant because I think it might reduce overall projection. I might have been mistaken but I expected a solid shell drum to project more than a staved drum. This does not seem to be true when I compare the sound of these new ones to my old set. They are staved (and very well broken in). I forget the name of the company who was importing these for awhile, but I believe they were built in the Dominican Republic.

Very rough, bearing edges are not well rounded, etc..,but they do sound good. The skins on the staved set are much thinner and I'm beginning to think skins play as large a role in the overall sound as the shells do.
Also, now that I have applied some shea butter to the skin and played it a bit more, it seems to be moving in the right direction, albeit in small steps. Starting to buy into the "break-in period"!

During the time sponges fell off and the ringing was gone too...

Thanks PimpS, another point that I think supports skin break-in period. Seems like the hoop marcus suggests will be very similar, in effect, to the sponge, but without glue.

Thanks for all replies, I will keep you updated with results.

[Mike]

I think most has been said about the anti-ringing devices.
Just to inform you, the Greek mule skins you asked about
are absolutely awesome, I had two of those, and the feel and
sound of them has been a stunning experience viewtopic.php?t=4378
El Greco is a real pro, fast, reliable and very friendly. You can ask anyone here, his mule skins are outstanding.
As regards overtones, ringing or whatever you may call it, I would think that all those issues can be mainly referred to the shell construction, so adding a little foam here or some cloth there can be really useful.
Mind you, very often people do not hear the ringing sound from some meters away!

Just 2 cents from a board oldie

[Jerry Bembe]

I am corrected, Drumskulls was what I ment to reefer to. I have heard many good things about these African solid shells with hardware fitted in California. I am sorry to hear they are ringing. These are top $$ congas bro.

The ring method with zip tie rings on the interior sounds like a cool idea. There are so many great ideas here at this forum.

I agree whith your head reference. L&H and many others will tell you that most of the tone comes from the skin first then the shell is secondary. You can get good tone from good skins with lousy shells but a lousy head with a great shell sounds lousy. The good head paired with a good shell will be the best.

Too much focus is on shells when we really need to understand what makes a good head. This is not a cookie cutter situation because the head needs to be properly paired with the shell. This forum has been very helpful for guidance. (Note there is a mix of fact and opinion here)

Happy drumming

[oshkoshrhythm]

Thanks Mike for the word on the greek muleskins.

And also Jerry,
You are right, Drumskull is quality, and I know that they strive to support the carvers in African and the teachers that spread the knowledge of drumming. My previous experience has been with their djembes though. I think they have only done a few of these conga sets.
I am encouraged by your comment on the proper pairing of the right skins with these shells. El Greco recommended a 2.5mm for the quinto, 2.7mm for the conga and 3mm for the tumba. I was just about resigned to using some of the anti-ringing devices and hoping that the skins that are on them would break-in nice and "wake up". But now I think I need to learn more about finding the right skin. Any opinions or facts would be helpful. The mule skins aren't cheap, but I've committed enough expense to these already that I don't want to start skimping now. With that said I do realize now that I am trying to condense years of experience down to a thread on this forum. A tall order, but I do feel fortunate to have found this group. I been reading a lot on here and there is a wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it that I am grateful for.

So, what do you take into consideration when choosing a skin for a particular drum?
Here is what I think I have learned so far.
Too thin will magnify overtones,
Mule skin may be harder on the hands, but some have said it is not (I think source and thickness might play a role in this).
Mule skin has been found to "tame solid shell ringing".
Skin needs to be from a good source so that processing has not ruined it (removed natural oils, etc..).

I guess that is what has stuck so far. I will also dig into the forum more to see what else I can dig up.
Thanks again to all who have replied.

[oshkoshrhythm]

Well, I dug some more and maybe I just need to call L&H. Sounds like they are the experts.

[Tumbao]

Have you asked the guys at DSD? I've found them to be great and very helpful on their African drums, although I'm very new to conga.