Single Mic for Setup??? - Recommendations Please.

[treefrog88]

I play a typical two Conga setup with one set of Bongos just above the conga heads. I'd like to mic my drums but our sound guy would go crazy if I asked him to add four more inputs to the board. BTW, I play in a small church on Sunday's and our music is a mix of styles.

Is there a good mic that would be able to mount in the middle of my setup (or above) that could pickup my sound? My family says they can't hear me when the music starts up.

Thanks-

[CongaTick]

The simple answer is no. One mic will not do the job under those circumstances. Compromise with your sound guy in this manner: There are clip mics that will fit snugly onto your congas rims (the pros here can recommend which) that will give you more direct amplification. Get the church to spring for a couple of them. The bongos, if tuned high, should snap and pop through even without amping. The second thing to do is to get the other guys in the band to talk to your sound man, letting him know they can't hear the congas in the mix. A little outside pressure from others may encourage him to be a bit more liberal with the percussion gain. I'l pray for you.

[niallgregory]

The usual shit with sound engineers.I am sick of it.kit player shows up with a huge kit snare,4 toms,bass drum,cymbals etc.He gets everything close miked.I was playing four congas and the sound guy wants to give me 1 mic for my congos {as he called them}.This has happened to me so many times playing gigs.I now refuse to play unless i am adequately miked.Try explaining "i am playing with my hands and the kit player is using sticks" so why does he need all the microphones.This has happened to me on well paid high profile gigs not just local bar gigs.
Lost count on how many times i have watched a percussionist but couldnt hear anything he was playing.Sorry for ranting,this just really pisses me off. :angry:

[treefrog88]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yah, I know what you mean - it's tough to get the sound guy to give you a hand. Guess I'm not alone in the battle!!!

I've read here of a way to use a few mics plugged into a small 4 or 5 channel mixer and run only one line into the sound board where the tech could only tweak the volume. Can anybody explain a little better, and if so, what type of equipment are you using for this setup?

Thanks again.

[drumtramp65]

Check out submixers made by Behringer. They are relatively cheap in price compared to other live sound manufacturers and are good quality. I use an 8 input one. 8 may sound like too many inputs but think about the one time where you may want to close mic 3 congas, a set of bongos, a set of timbales, a percussion rack, a vocal mic and maybe an over head for cymbals. Obviously you may never need that many, or only need it once or twice in your playing career but my point is it's better to have the capabilty. That way you never have to worry about the sound guy ruining your gig because he ran out of inputs. Since we're on the topic, also check out Audix drum mic's. Their Fusion series is affordable and sound just as good as their top line. You can get a whole mic package of 4 tom/conga mics and 2 condensors for around $400. Audix also makes those handy little clips that mount on the rim so there's no need for boom stands. Hope this helps you...good luck!

[pidoca]

Gday mate.

I also play in a church in australia. If I can suggest that you biuld up a relationship with your sound guy. At the end of the day you are both wanting the samething. for the word to get out. IT has taken me a couple of years but it inow up to the stage were the sound uys are adding effects to the chimes and panning them left and right to get a swirling effect. I cant see them doing that for anyone else.

Work on your profectic playing. LEt the spirit of God come out through your playing. When the grace of God is on what you are doing, it doesnt matter what is around you the message will get into peoples hearts.

As far as the set up that I use
- 2 or 3 congas
-bongos (sometimes)
-chimes
-noisy things (toys)
- shakers and tambourines

I generally use 3 or 4 mics. I have an effects rack in which I have a compressor, an EQ and gates. on top of the rack I am using a small yamaha desk. 4 mic channels. I connect everything up then send a stereo mix to the sound guy. IF He is really short on channels I will send him a mono channel. HE likes it because he does not have to think about eq or anything else, simply plug in and play.

I wasnt able to afford all this equipment over night. I was fortunate enough to buy it over a period of a year. It does get expensive. But as a christian Drummer playing in a christian environment, it is important to be a blessing to the church (not a burden).

IF you like I can send you some images of the way that I have it all connected up.

Email me at

richard@cabritamusic.com

Hope this helps
God Bless
PIdoca

[url=cabritamusic.com]CABRITA MUSIC[/url]

[smidogg]

I also us a small behringer mixer for my rig. Its great. I use three conga close mics, two stereo overheads, a vocal mic, and two mics on my timbales. I mix them together on my little mixer and give the sound guy a two channel mix down.
I now own all of my mics and the mixer so I always get the proper mic coverage.
Also I have recently picked up a small powered studio wedge that I use for a monitor as well so that I do not have to worry about getting a good stage mix.
That way the only thing I really need to deal with a sound guy for is making sure that I get enough of the other vocalists and bass in my other monitor.
I tend to play very progressive music rooted in afro cuban jazz and its crucial that I get these good mixes.
I think the whole set up cost me about 1000 dollars US.
It was worth every penny.

[TigerBongo]

I also us a small behringer mixer for my rig. Its great. I use three conga close mics, two stereo overheads, a vocal mic, and two mics on my timbales. I mix them together on my little mixer and give the sound guy a two channel mix down.
I now own all of my mics and the mixer so I always get the proper mic coverage.
Also I have recently picked up a small powered studio wedge that I use for a monitor as well so that I do not have to worry about getting a good stage mix.
That way the only thing I really need to deal with a sound guy for is making sure that I get enough of the other vocalists and bass in my other monitor.
I tend to play very progressive music rooted in afro cuban jazz and its crucial that I get these good mixes.
I think the whole set up cost me about 1000 dollars US.
It was worth every penny.

HI Guys,

I agree with all the responses....but sometimes carting all your perc gear (maybe 3-4 conga, djembe, bongo, marktree, shakers, Udo, hardware etc!!!) is enough in itself, with out having to cart around your own sound rig, monitor mics etc. Not just as a matter of having room in your car, but also the amount of time setting up!

So - if you are really pushed (and yes - I know it's NOT ideal) a couple of large diaphram condensors would work reasonably nicely - sure you'll have to compromise some what on sound, but it's really a ? of whats practical for you at this stage.

I do personally use a some behringer to add extra channels for miking up my rig and then giving the soundman a stereo mix. Another benefit of this is that you can give yourself you own mix to your monitor - along with mixing in the mian desk monitor feed through a spare line-in channel - and then some creative use of the Aux O/puts.

I also (like Pidoca) play at church and church events throughout my City - and often, perc is last cab in the rank sound wise....so you've rally got to let them know your requirements, but at the same time work in with the limitations on resources that most churches have!

[smidogg]

Actually Tiger bongo, the mixer, mics (all clip on except overheads and vox) and monitor (10" compact studio monitor) all fit in a very compact road case which also houses my shakeres, bells and other small and medium sized percussion.
The extra stands just go in my already heavy hardware bag.
As far as set up goes I actually tend to get up and running faster than most other members of the band because I don't have to rely on the audio tech to give me mics and cables or to set them up for me.
After a few test runs I have the whole set up down in about 10 minutes. Maybe 15.
That includes setting up 3 congas, 2 timbales, A full LP everything rack with bells, blocks, cymbals, ets, 2 cowbell foot pedals, and a few other acessories.
The biggest problem with using two large diaphram condensors is the bleed from the rest of the band. I have seen the drum set player come through the conga overheads more than the congas. I actually use two smaller condensors in my setup and they are mixed down because they are there to pick up my bells, blocks and shakeres, which already have a very hot signal. If I had to mix them up with the clip ons the sound would be terrible! Also most large diaphram condensors run about 400 dollars and up. In the studio though its a whole other story.
I tell you the little extra work and gear to carry has paid off 10 fold in good monitoring (never play too hard anymore) as well as a clear and crisp sound in front of house.
I have had too many split fingers trying to play live when all the sound guy has left for me is one stinkin shure sm57 and a crappy mic stand.



Edited By smidogg on 1125786168

[TigerBongo]

Hey Smidogg,

yeah - good point.......I personally do prefer to use clip-ons and 'close-overhead' miking on my gear - just sick of turning up to gigs where all the soundguys got for me is one mike - like you say, an SM57 on a crappy stand etc.

I'm yet to get my own compact monitor - but yeah that would be ideal! I currently use a DB technologies 12" powered speaker - but again - it's too big!

Sounds like you've got a primo setup!

Later,
TigerBongo

[smidogg]

The biggest trick to using a smaller monitor speaker is placement.
The one I have when placed on the floor ends up muddy to my ears. So I set it up behind me on top of an empty conga case and it is perfect (I'm a seated player).
You should check out what small powered studio monitors are available in your area. They are suprisingly loud and clear. Even the ones with a 6.5" speaker (which I may switch to myself.)

Yeah I'm pretty happy with this setup, but it took me about 6 years to put it together. It all started with 3 clip on sennheiser E604s for my congas, then a vocal mic, thats when the sound guys started complaining so I got the mixer.
The overheads came as I started to use more percussion on stage. After that came the timbales and two more E604s.
I actually just started using the studio monitor this year.
I have bought pretty much all of the components used so I saved a ton of money. Same things with my drums (basically new set of 3 LP classics for under 500$!!!).

Let me know if you want any other info on what speakers are available out there.
Peace

[TigerBongo]

Sounds nice Smidogg.....

Unfortunately for me - I',m stuck at the bottom of the world in New Zealdn....the 2nd hand market in NZ is very small for perc gear - and therefore anybody that has good gear tends to hold on to it for some time. Also most of the gear you can buy here new is reasonably expensive!

I'm in the process of looking for new/2nd set of conga (probably 3) - and am thinking LP Patatos will be the way I'll go - the other extreme of my wood set......Ebay has quite abit of nice gear available from time to time.....but must US sellers aren't that keen to ship overseas.....so invariably you have to organise your own shipping - and thats abit of a pain ina the arse!

Anyway - all the best dude!

Craig
aka TigerBongo

[Isaac]

~ HOW ABOUT YOUR OWN AMP & MICS ? ~

The other instrumentalists - Bassist & guitarists
bring their own amps. Wouldn't it better to ultimately be in control of your own sound?
A keyboard amp will cover the highs & lows of the congas
and they usually have a few inputs, plus some simple reverb
to help your sound. Sure, it's an investment, but you won't
ruin your hands - which really are you're long term investment for life.
I know many of you have already spent
many dollars on the percussion instruments, but being
able to have a consistent & reliable ampliication is
going to make life easier and get you heard.

Any comments & feeback on this would be
greatly appreciated. Why should congueros settle and
be 2nd class band members?

~ ISAAC ~
New Jersey

[smidogg]

TigerBongo
You should check out Ebay if you want to get used gear. I have gotten some awesome gear on there. Most people will ship internationally

Isaac

If you just plug mics into an amplifier that is designed for a line level instrument signal then you are going to have signifigant problems. Most notably what comes out of the amp will sound bad and you will not have much control over the EQs. Try it sometime, the congas will inevitably sound "tinny".

The set up that I have is specifically designed to save my hands. I have always found that I play harder when I have a bad monitor mix and cannot hear myself. This even holds true when I have played in big room where I know that I am comming through loud and clear in the front of house. But without fail, bad monitors equals sore hands.
So by bringing my own mics, a small mixer, and a small powered studio monitor I am able to shape my own monitor mix of my rig. After this I always play relaxed and at the peak of my technique.

By doing this I can also shape the mix of my instruments that goes to front of house because I just give the sound guy a one signal mixdown of 7 mics. This is Ideal because I know how my instruments should be mixed together. Most sound engineers are really unfamiliar with mixing congas alone, and when you add a full perc rig they can be downright clueless.
Once I started using this setup the results were immediate. On our first live recording afterwards my mix was perfect.

Here is a quick tech list of what I use
5 sennheiser clip on mics (3 congas, 2 timbales)
2 Oktava small diaphram condensor mics (overheads for perc)
1 Sure Beta 58 vocal mic
Behringer 8 channel mixer
Mackie 10" powered studio monitor (for me)

I essentially send the same mix to the sound guy that I send to my monitor, with a few minor adjustments.

Let me know if you need any more info.

Oh and Isaac you still selling those mule skin heads?
How much for a set for Q, C, T, heads for LP classics?



Edited By smidogg on 1125954617

[pidoca]

has any one got pics of their set up with mics etc...

It would be great to see. I will post mine next week.

God Bless
Pidoca
http://www.cabritamusic.com