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Posted: **Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:47 pm**

So I don't play a whole lot of traditional Latin music, I'm more into jazz, funk, reggae, rock, etc. I know when playing traditional music the clave is the most important thing, but how many of you players who play other styles actually use clave? Don't get me wrong I'm obsessed with percussion knowledge and I think in order to play the instrument you must know its traditional rhythms and styles. I never pass up a chance to learn a new style or instrument. But it just seems to me that if I'm playing a funky groove with some other musicians, clave is not needed or even capable of fitting without throwing off the other players. Anyone else have any thoughts on clave?

Posted: **Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:06 pm**

Deadhead,

Also don't get a chance to perform much traditional (or even contemporary Latin), though I practice with a huge library of music in that groove. Mostly perfom classic rock, funk, blues, alternative, etc and I found that clave applies to much of that music, though not all, I must admit. When it doesn't I modify a tumbao to play more melodically within the song.

Posted: **Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:51 pm**

Alafia Abures!
May you all be well and in an abundance of blessings!

When you've studied/played latin jazz, salsa, folkloric etc. where clave is obviously present, clave becomes intrinsically a part of your playing. Even though it isn't as obvious when we play in other genres of music, if we check ourselves (rythmically) we'll more than likely find clave in what we're playing.

When I jam with a latin jazz group I currently play for, we do some George Benson, James Brown, WAR, ol'school funk, and I do exactly as you stated brother CongaTick. I play a basic pattern (funk, or whatever the rythm calls for), then I modify it once the groove gets going, usually a melodic phrasing complimenting either the piano, or bass!

It's a blast, as I'm sure you can attest to Abure CongaTick!

Many blessings!

Onile!

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:29 pm**

Most definitely, bro Onile.

Matter of fact, just got sucked into an Indie Rock band for a few gigs starting end of Marchand into April. First time with a group that really pushes the musical envelope. And of course, clave was my constant companion, even there. Modified, of course, but there. And it brought a whole new level to their music.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:45 pm**

I agree with Congatick. That is exactly what I do. My new duo group is still in the practice stage, so I can experiment some. I wll be playing along and something doesn't feel quite right, so I will reverse the clave from the 2-side to the 3-side or vice versa and everything starts sounding a lot better.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:46 pm**

Anybody ever heard for the Jazz kit player "Bob Moses"? He's kinda out there but he does talk a lot about each song having its own clave (key rhythm) and the ability for any musician to find it and play with or around it. He's not refering to a cuban son or rumba clave pattern specifically but rather to each songs own dominant rhythm that continues to repeat throughout the song. Intersesting stuff to consider and reflect on. Sometimes it helps in your approach to different styles of music... especially when playing non Afro-Caribbean genres.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:13 pm**

hi deadhead,

clave has developed from the bell patterns in the west african music. the 3/2sonclave for example is the same as the highlife bell pattern played with kpanlogo or gigbuwakan in ghana. the rumba clave developed from the old yoruba bell pattern, dropping the two nonaccented tones. theres a lot more of bell patterns, often just different in the point where the 1 is set, allthough producing a very different groove. if you listen to modern funk, jazzrock etc you will find propper use of these bell patterns. if playing swing, you have to adjust the patterns to swing, of course. analysing the rhythmic structures of modern 2/4, 4/4 or 6/8 music, you will hardly find stuff that cannot easily be reduced to one of the common bell patterns. finding out, what bell pattern is corresponding to the song or the part of the song, was allways helpfull for me playing with jazzrock and funkmusicians. you please excuse my bad english.

blessings
zwar

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:35 am**

I use different clave and palitos patterns with bells and blocks simultaneously in funk and other styles of music. Casual listeners think I'm doing an "exotic" solo cuz they don't know it's a basic pattern since they've never heard it within that context. They think I'm an eclectic genius.

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:32 am**

When you think of clave outside of cuban music, that can be any other rhythmical pattern that all arrangement of song is constructed around. Just not too many and not too few accents per bar. Important is that other players in band agree to it or at least recognize "your clave".

I think of clave as main accents, and that one can subdivide time in between as wishes.

So much of tango/dancehall/reggae music goes around 3+3+2/8 structure. Or accents on 2+2+2+2/8 in rock music

Or little shifts from clave to make it funky.

Edited By Smejmoon on 1171881257

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:13 pm**

Some good input, thanks everyone. :cool:

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:04 pm**

The tune "Hambone" is in 3/2 clave and u can find other commercial music without the knowledge of clave intact,by the authors...the tune from the Sound of Music .."doe a deer a female deer" is actually in 3/2 rumba clave, but the author didnt know that when he wrote it, it just came out that way, with his phraasing of the words..."JC" Johnny Conga....

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:47 pm**

Had to take moment here at work and tap that out on the table

Leave out the 'a''s - right ? and it's 3/2

doe ...deer ...fe...male...deer

Darrell

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:22 pm**

doe a deer a female deer 3/2 rumba clave..."JC" Johnny Conga...

Posted: **Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:26 pm**

It fits the clave for Yambu Matancero exactly, and is 3/2 in feeling, but doesn't exactly fit what we call 3/2 rumba clave unless you leave out the "deer" and "fe-". The

doe a ... a ... male deer

fall on the usual accents for the 3/2 rumba clave.

Posted: **Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:59 am**

Hola Jorge pero who is we?...."JC" Johnny Conga...

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Clave in non-traditional music?