ebay Conga Identification - Could it really be ...????

[taikonoatama]

ebay Conga Identification
Could it really be ...????

I stumbled across a completed ebay auction the other day, from Feb. 2007, and my jaw just about hit the floor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290087892124

I'll include the ad text and photos here as well, as that URL will only be accessible for a couple of months. Sold for $99:

----------------------------------------------------
LARGE VINTAGE 1950's 1960's WOOD CONGA DRUM
30" TALL and 12" WIDE AT THE SKIN
THIS WAS PURCHASED AT AN ESTATE AUCTION
THE SOUND IS GREAT AND THE DRUM SHOWS SOME SCRATCHES BUT THE SKIN IS GOOD AND TIGHT AND THERE IS PLENTY OF ADJUSTMENT LEFT
I BELIEVE THIS TO BE A HAND MADE PIECE BUT IT'S PROVINENCE IS UNKNOWN AND HAS NO MARKINGS ON IT THAT I CAN SEE IT PLAYS GREAT AND MAY NEED SOME GLUE IN THE RIBBED SIDES BUT THIS DOES NOT AFFECT THE SOUND QUALITY WHICH IS OUTSTANDING FEEL FREE TO ASK QUESTIONS OR COME BY TO INSPECT IT YOURSELF IF YOU ARE AROUND SUFFOLK COUNTY,LI,NY I HAVE ADDED A $15 PACKING FEE BUT LOCAL PICKUP IS ALWAYS WELCOME
NO RESERVE !!!
----------------------------------------------------

Pics of the ebay drum:
http://picasaweb.google.com/taikonoatama/VergaraStyleCongaOnEbay

So I'm thinking, could it be? You know what I'm thinking here? There aren't that many possibilities. Could it really be a ... Vergara??? I do not have the expertise to actually say for sure, having never seen one in person (Dario? Where are you?), but compare the pics of this drum with those of known Vergaras (and thanks to Dario for several of these pics, which he'd posted previously).

Pics of genuine Vergaras:
http://picasaweb.google.com/taikonoatama/VergaraCongas

Who else could have made this, based on this clearly being a very old drum?

Junior Tirado - A possibility, but did Junior ever use 5 bands? I've only seen 4. Juniors side plates have rivets on either side of the loop, and rivets where each crown loop attaches to the metal rim, and this ebay drum and the Vergaras do not. Early Juniors could have had this style, the way early Gon Bops did with their non-riveted side plates and then switched later - I just don't know.

Jay Bereck (Skin on Skin) - He also has the rivets, and his style of crown loops is much more narrow. If he wanted to make a more exact copy of a Vergara he no doubt could, and maybe he did way back when he started and then worked out his own variation as time went on - I don't know. He used to repair Mongo's Vergaras, and he used that design as the basis for his drums, so he was certainly intimately familiar with Vergaras.

Someone else in Cuba - The hardware is completely different than SONOC. Not Solis, from Havana. Requena? I've only seen the bongos and the crown hardware is very different. Anyone else?

There are other threads here on Vergara (well, actually the Vergara brothers, I believe, Gonzalo being the more well known), but for those who do not know, he was the most famous drum maker in Cuba back in the 50's and 60's (and possibly before). He was reputed to be the first to manufacture production-level congas with mechanically tunable heads (as opposed to holding them over a fire/heat source to tune them up). Mechanically tunable heads had been done on bongos some years previously and then Patato (and/or others - it's a matter of dispute who was actually the first) applied this to their congas, but Vergara is the one who really refined it.

Oh, and they're supposedly the greatest conga you'll ever play or hear.

When Mongo and others would travel back to Cuba (before the embargo in 1962), they'd bring some drums back with them, and that's how most of the Vergaras came to the States - there cannot be many around, but they became the progenitors for nearly every conga made since.

Anyway, take a close look and compare the hardware and bands and everything - if it's not a Vergara, it's pretty much an exact copy.

I heard something about some Cuban drummakers living in Queens in the 60's - Casa Cubana or something - who did a Vergara style conga. Does anyone know anything about them?

There are certainly people on this board with far more expertise than me - what else could it be? For $99?

~Taiko

PS. Yes, the dude is well aware of what he might have bought.



Edited By taikonoatama on 1175118064

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... tyle02.jpg

[deadhead]

I dunno what it is but the person got a good deal. The guy who bought it is the same person that has those SONOCs on ebay right now.

[Omelenko]

The conga is a "Casa Cubana" made in Queens back in the 1970's. When I saw it "Warrior for Christ", the guy that bought it ,had already gotten it. Is no Vergara but very similar in design. The guy lucked out for $99 bucks. Saludos, Dario

[Omelenko]

Here is Jose Fajardo (flute) and a conguero from Cuba they called "Nat King Cole". These are Vergaras from the 50's.
Saludos, Dario

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... tudio_.jpg

[Charangaman]

Great foto!

[taikonoatama]

The conga is a "Casa Cubana" made in Queens back in the 1970's. When I saw it "Warrior for Christ", the guy that bought it ,had already gotten it. Is no Vergara but very similar in design. The guy lucked out for $99 bucks. Saludos, Dario

What is it that differentiates this drum from a Vergara, visually speaking and otherwise? And could you tell us more about Casa Cubana?

Thanks,

Taiko

[GuruPimpi]

Dario!

Yes, must agree with Charangaman; great photo and must say that your knowledge of tumbadoras amazes me again! We're lucky to have you here!

Primoz

[Omelenko]

I was going to buy a pair in 1975, I remember giving a deposit to the owner of Do Re Mi music, Rolando. At the time, but they were selling them for $350 each and in 1975 that was too much "dinero" for me.
They were made by a Cuban guy in Queens by the name of Frankie Rodriguez. What's different about Casa Cubana and Vergara is that Casa Cubana was 31" tall and Vergaras were 30". Another thing,the Vergara shell was thinner. I friend of mine has a Casa Cubana hembra and he made the mistake of cutting 1" off the bottom to pair it with a Skin on Skin macho, I would have never done that, you leave a conga the way it was made. Saludos, Dario

PS. Here is a foto of Marcelino Valdes (Tito Rodriguez, Allegre All Stars) with 2 Vergaras. I bought these from Marcelino's widow when he died.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... Valdez.jpg

[Omelenko]

Patato playing 2 Vergaras from the late 50's that Joe Cuba bought from a bakery in El Barrio, who used to get Vergara congas from Cuba throught a connection from Mongo.

Dario

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... E_CUBA.jpg

[taikonoatama]

What's different about Casa Cubana and Vergara is that Casa Cubana was 31" tall and Vergaras were 30". Another thing,the Vergara shell was thinner.

I've been corresponding with the buyer the last couple of days trying to help him figure out what it is that he has, and he has measured it to be 30" (as stated in the ebay ad) and says the shell is "VERY thin."

?

[Omelenko]

He's got a Casa Cubana, he knows me from Ebay as "Doctorumba". My friend Mario has been in communication with him and he knows is a Casa Cubana,is not a Vergara. He can say is 30" all he wants but Casa Cubana is 31" . The crown is a Casa Cubana, Vergara had rivets on the "v"'s. He can not fool me.

[taikonoatama]

The crown is a Casa Cubana, Vergara had rivets on the "v"'s. He can not fool me.

As for there being or not being rivets on the "v"s of the crown of a Vergara, I was basing that in part on the most closeup view I've seen of a supposed Vergara, from Ray Barretto's 1962 recording "Charanga Moderna." This matches the ebay drum perfectly. Is this not in fact a Vergara? Was Ray playing Casa Cubanas?

Dario, you've said you have a couple of Vergaras and you've been around the scene a whole lot longer than me - you're clearly the expert here, not me. I'm just trying to understand what's what, that's all.

http://picasaweb.google.com/taikono....6826354



Edited By taikonoatama on 1175209353

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _crown.jpg

[lovesupreme]

"I friend of mine has a Casa Cubana hembra and he made the mistake of cutting 1" off the bottom to pair it with a Skin on Skin macho"

Maybe Warrior4Christ bought Dario's friends drum

[GuruPimpi]

Mine Sonoc is 31'' too... ???

Primoz

[taikonoatama]

Just found this interview with Ray Barretto (Latin Beat Magazine, May, 2003 by Rudy Mangual) where Ray talks about the drum on his "Charanga Moderna" cover:

=================================

RM: What type of drum did you get?

RB: Well, first I got a set of bongós, but I was not happy with the sound I was getting out of them, so I went to a bakery on 116th Street in the barrio (Spanish Harlem) that sold cheap Cuban conga drums for about $50 to $60 and got my first conga drum.

RM: A $50 conga drum! Did it sound good?

RB: It wasn't the greatest conga drum, but it got the job done. Anyway, I was learning how to play myself and a better drum wasn't going to make that much difference. As a matter of fact, that same bakery later on started bringing in from Cuba better quality conga drums, Vergara conga drums, and I was able to buy one of the last sets of drums they sold before the Cuban embargo. Those are the conga drums on the cover of my Charanga Moderna album.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FXV/is_4_13/ai_102553983



Edited By taikonoatama on 1175209300