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Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:34 pm**

Whats the deal with all the concern over a drum going out of round?

Ive played so many out of round gon bops that sounded great. probably better than when they were new.

something about the aging of a drum, the small cracks, the maturing of the wood, the out of roundness, changes and adds to the signature sound of vintage drums.

Sustain is something people have used to justify the superiority of new drums. I think sustain is like wine, too much and it makes you sick. Often, a drum with serious sustain has ringing issues to be addressed by the choice of skin.

Now, Juniors have sustain without ring, for example. and this may have to do with the use of an alma, but I find it hard to believe that a Junior out of round would sound like ****.

I would like to hear from players, as opposed to collectors, on what they think of playing out of round drums.

Somehow it reminds me of tomatoes... every one wants one that looks perfect, but they dont taste as good as the ugly air looms.

Tony

(pic by Flaco)

Edited By blango on 1186421792

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 2-11_1.jpg

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:06 pm**

What's an alma?

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:12 pm**

Never mind-- I just saw the thread specifically concerning alma's. Back to the topic.

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:41 pm**

BLANGO, I'M GLAD YOU'VE SAID WHAT YOU HAVE. I'M A RUMBERO 1ST, AND A LATIN JAZZ CONGERO 2ND.
FOR ME, IF I MUST HAVE A METAL RING INSIDE MY DRUM , BY IT'S BEARING EDGE, I WOULD PROBABLY INSTALL BELLS, FOR A HIGHER QUALITY RING!

YOU KNOW HOW WE DO IT BRO. IT COULD LOOK LIKE A MONSTER, BUT IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, THEN IT'S GREAT!!!!

I TRY NOT TO DWELL ON SUCH DRUM ISSUES.

IT'S MORE A THING OF, WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, AND TO ME IT'S THE SOUND.
I AGREE WITH YOU.

BLANGO,
WITH RESPECT FOR ALL,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO :;):

Edited By yambu321 on 1186432944

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:58 pm**

So you guys don't care for a conga being out of round,egg shape. I know sound is everything, but an out of round conga is a turn off. I'm not just a collector, I also play. I played bongo' with Mongo, have played conga and bongo with lots of people, Nestor Torres ,Andy Harlow, Sider Matin,African groups........
I would not spend my money on an out of round conga drum, but then to each its own. Pa' gusto se han hecho colores, para jardines flores y para cagar tivoles.
Saludos,

Dario

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:05 pm**

:laugh:

Edited By yambu321 on 1186432273

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:19 pm**

OMELENKO,
ALL MY DRUMS LOOK GREAT, AND SOUND GREAT, THEY ARE ALL, VERY WELL MAINTAINED BY ME. I'M SURE THAT THE SAME WOULD BE TRUE, FOR ANY OTHER, SELF RESPECTING RUMBERO.

ALL WE ARE SAYING, IS, THAT A GOOD DRUM, IS A GOOD DRUM. AND BAD DRUM, IS A BAD DRUM. SO IF YOU HAVE A GOOD DRUM, YOU ARE SET! JUST TAKE GOOD CARE OF IT, AND MOST LIKELY, IT WILL REMAIN THAT WAY.

SURELY, CHANCES ARE THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BUY A DRUM THAT IS TWEEKED. BUT IF YOU HAVE ONE THAT FOR WHAT EVER REASON, HAS GONE OUT OF ROUND, THROUGH THE YEARS, BUT SOUNDS REALLY DAILED IN, YOU'D BE CRAZY TO LET IT GO.

YOU SEE, WE ALL COLLECT TO A DEGREE, BUT WHAT'S IMPORTANT, MOSTLY IMPORTANT, TO A HARDCORE PLAYER, IS THE SOUND, AND NOTHING BUT THE SOUND! :;):

THERE ARE PLAYERS.

THERE ARE COLLECTORS.

THERE ARE PLAYERS THAT COLLECT,

AND, COLLECTORS THAT PLAY.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE, AS TO WHICH ONE OF THOSE,
WE ARE.

WITH RESPECT,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO

Edited By yambu321 on 1186432345

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:20 pm**

I think some of the older drums were much more likely to go out of round than modern custom manufacturers...

I know I would be sad if my expensive drum went out of round after just a year or two, but if after 20 years of use if it was'nt perfectly round I could deal with it if it still sounded good.

but from what I know of the subject, is'nt going out of round more due to owner neglect/ abuse particularly from an overtightend skin forcing the lugplates to press inward?

Of course an alma would protect against this, but I gotta believe a well maintained well made drum without an alma would surely keep its shape?

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:38 pm**

On the contrary, I have seen out of round drums go back to being in round as simple as putting on a new hoop and skin.
As a matter of fact my LP Valje had a out of round macho, from the original head. replaced that with a thicker cowhide and it got rounder, not perfect but much better. Upon inpsection the hoop itself was out of round.

I was ready to ditch them, but tried the last effort to resurect.

My feeling is that all those old GB's & Valjes or what ever out of round is probably mostly out of mis use after many years, like having washers to keep up lug thread real' estate, and the plate starting to tweek upwards. Never detuned etc. How lame, a new head would have probably fixed the whole situation.
But I would hate a out of round conga!! Even if it sounded good, I would be embaressed.
IMO it probably is prone to be out of round if it is off from the beginning, and lead to the demise after using the same ol skin/hoop construction. This can be seen when you crank the drum and measure it. Not all drums are perfectly round, or should I say most are not.

I have seen a Meinl (rubber wood) reskinned w/ thick cowhide go out by 1/2" to 3/4" on tunning. CHanging skins and hoop helped, but still not perfect when tunned, even though when loose or no skin, it was round.
I think I have seen out of round Valje's more than GB's.

I have a feeling that with new non alma'd congas e.g. Moperc, Isla would problay be a good bet due to the stainless steel hardware. With a out of round drum, the hardware( however misued) is failing IMO.
Volcano also, but I will save judgment on them since they have stave biskets involved.

So I think the whole construction does have pre destined characteristics of its demise.

T

Edited By Tonio on 1186437057

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:26 pm**

"THERE ARE PLAYERS.

THERE ARE COLLECTORS.

THERE ARE PLAYERS THAT COLLECT,

AND, COLLECTORS THAT PLAY.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE, AS TO WHICH ONE OF THOSE,
WE ARE."

Yea!

El Coqui, well said! Let me know when youre in the Bay Area, I'll hook you up.

Its all about the sound for me too. But i have to say, i really appreciate the art of Jay, Matt, Junior, and even the cat from Moperc. I really love the look of a brand new, finely crafted hand made drum. But often, its not what i play.

I like a tub that i dont have to think about. In other words, i dont have to keep an eye on who plays it, or how they treat it. Its nice to just play. It must sound great, no matter.

Tony

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:32 pm**

Hey Dario,

I know you play, and like you say, to each their own.

much respect,

Tony

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:35 pm**

For those that have congas with NO Alma(inner iron hoop) you can use EPOXY, the kind you mix together, remove the conga head and spread the epoxy around the inner top of the shell(use a knife or similar to spread it), and let it dry...it's another way to keep the drum from "egging out"....ol skool stuff...."JC" Johnny Conga....

Posted: **Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:07 am**

I have never had on of my congas go out of round on me.I take extra care in selecting proper thickness in heads,I always untune after I play,I always lubricate with DW 40 or 3 in 1 oil. To me a conga is an instrument that you get beautiful sound of and also is a think of beauty that must be properly maintained.
However, I seen many friends that never untune,keep the same head for 10 yrs.,keeps on adding washers to lugs, never lubricate lugs. No wonder a conga goes egg shape. I have a pair of Valje from 1972 (no alma) and are perfectly round.
It all depends on the individual and how well you maintain your instruments.
Enclosed Valje congas 1972, Junior Tirado 1974
Saludos, Dario

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... Congas.jpg

Posted: **Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:10 am**

YEAH TONY,
I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN,

WHEN I BREAK OUT MY ISLAS, IT'S LIKE SORRY, THESE ARE MINE; AND WHEN I TAKE THE MATADORS IT'S ALL GOOD, BECAUSE THERE'S NO NEED TO WORRY MUCH.

ALSO, THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS BRO

RESPECTFULLY,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO

Posted: **Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:11 am**

Enclosed hand made Echo Tones 1968 (no Almas). Perfectly round.Always lubricated and untuned after rumbas or gigs. Dario

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ONES_2.jpg

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Out of round is out of bounds? - I dont see what the big deal is...