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Hi,
I'm geting a new skin 2.5-3mm for my conga because it's overtones. One conguero told me that thick skins are bad for your hands. Is it true? What is your opinion on that?
I'm lost in this conga world....
thanks
Mario

Find a good teacher, let them guide you.

I can tell you are mixed up and I don't think that soliciting the opinions of the members here, who will have lots of different views and experiences, is going to help you out.

Find a mentor and stick with them. They will advise you on your drum, skins, technique and all the rest.

Thomas is absolutely right. A mentor with solid experience and TEACHING skills will be your most valuable source of information and guidace. I have medium thick mules on all my tubs and can only say that my hands aren't any more "damaged" as a result of playing them than when I played on buffalo. Mule does entail a bit of a break-in, but not by breaking your hands. Though I get normal winter callus splits, the Isaac mules are now as surface sweet as a baby's ass. Hand-hurts are almost always a sympton of technique problems. A mentor with a keen eye and ear can pinpoint problems before you get too far down the wrong road.

CongaTick wrote:Hand-hurts are almost always a sympton of technique problems.

Great point! I have heard this from several professional players.

There's a difference between survival and comfort. Yes, proper technique makes things easier on your hands, but I'd still rather play all night on comfortable heads than a tabletop. When I talk with my friends about the merits of of the various drums we've played, the comfort of the heads is almost always a factor.

After playing all night on my Bauers, which have very thick South American steer hide, my hands were a bit numbed. If I play all night on my bugarabus, with African cowhide, my hands feel almost normal.

That also has to do with the different style of drums. African drums normally can get away with having thinner skins and producing the right "African" sound. But Cuban drums like congas cannot do the same. They need a thick hide to produce a solid, clean, sustained tone that is so needed for the "Cuban" sound.

Djembe players don't have to hit nearly as hard as congueros simply cause it's not necessary. The conga needs to be INTO the drum and the african drums are played more on the surface. The conga is a seriously a hard drum to play without exerting a good amount of force on the strike. That's where technique comes in.

I've never had a mentor and have learned the hard way. I've gone thru pains in my hands, and cuts and swelling, you name it. But now, I don't get any cuts anymore (unless it's cold and dry out) and the pains are much less. I unfortunately play with a loud band and I am forced to play quite hard so there's no escaping the occasional swelling etc.

In a nut shell, the conga drum is not a superficial (by that I mean, light striking) drum to play and it gets some getting used to. Watch your technique cause nothing replaces the thick skin sound!!!

Djembe players don't have to hit nearly as hard as congueros simply cause it's not necessary.

This is so true. I can pull of fast licks easier and play longer without tiring on a djembe rather than a conga. But there is nothing like a firm feeling you get from playing a conga with a thick skin on it. The Drum just feels so solid and stable in your hands! I can't describe it anyother way.

I personally feel no difference with the factory LP water buffalo and considerably thicker mule on my other congas. Of course the texture is different but i don't feel the hardness as being a factor. Good skins will give you the right sound without much effort if you strike the drum right. I feel like it takes less effort on the mules than with the LP heads.

Sakuntu wrote:Djembe players don't have to hit nearly as hard as congueros simply cause it's not necessary.

This is so true. I can pull of fast licks easier and play longer without tiring on a djembe rather than a conga. But there is nothing like a firm feeling you get from playing a conga with a thick skin on it. The Drum just feels so solid and stable in your hands! I can't describe it anyother way.

Sorry, but I cannot agree at all with that generalized statement. Congas and djembe can be played hard or soft, it depends on a lot of factors. I feel like a lot of conga players don't know about the real djembe traditions and a lot of djembe players do not know about the real conga traditions. Nevertheless, in the modern 'ballet' style djembe music, you have to play djembe VERY hard to be heard above the rest of the ensemble and to give the music strength and power. Here are some videos for y'all to enjoy
p.s. if it has metal tunable hardware, or if it is not a wood body, or if it was not hand carved, or it does not have a natural skin, it is not a djembe....sorry but a djembe is more than a shape...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz9uCrngyr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_4B4zk-S-g&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVnmXHSScOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCvL3VWnyGk

Hi there

I have very thick skins on my set. I just love thick skins! It doesn't hurt at all. Why would it? You just need to get used to it. Thin skins are easier to play but I do not like the sound!

As mentioned above, hurting hands is a result of bad technique


D

[quote="akdom"]Hi there

I have very thick skins on my set. I just love thick skins! It doesn't hurt at all. Why would it? You just need to get used to it. Thin skins are easier to play but I do not like the sound!

As mentioned above, hurting hands is a result of bad technique


I have to disagree with the above statement. While I can not argue with another persons personal taste, I can argue with the long term damage done to one's hands playing constantly on thick skins. Over time the hands will develop callouses and harding of the surface skin regardless of the thickness you are playing on. However, long term playing on thick skins will damage one's hands. It is true that bad technique can add to the problem but the core issue is that there is no need for very thick skins. Thick skins actually chokes off much of the "full" open tones of a conga and kills the base notes.

I remember years ago having the good fortune to hang out with Mongo whenever he came to Philly. Even back then I never liked thick skins but I was amazed when I noticed that he played very thin skins. I mention this because he was noted for the big round tones in his tumbao. However, even with the thin skins he played with what looked like rubber condoms on all of his fingers. Yes, the tones are all about technique and is harder to master on thiner skins. Never the less, it is well worth the effort and much healthier for you hands.

Facundo1

Welcome back Facundo...
We miss your knowledgeable comments.

Isaac

Isaac wrote:Welcome back Facundo...
We miss your knowledgeable comments.

Isaac

Thanks Isaac its' nice to be appreciated. Actually I haven't gone anywhere I just been monitoring the various posts and enjoying the comments. However, this issue of thick skins is a hot button for me and I cringe every time someone extolls the value of playing on them. Many years ago when I first started playing congas there was a company called Amrawco, out of Chicago that supplied skins for congas most of which was mule of various thicknesses. LIke many who have posted on this list, I thought that the thicker skins sounded better and you just needed to get your hands hard enough to deal with them. I get a big revelation when I saw the head that some of the best players in town were playing on. The skins were all 2 to 3 mm in thickness.

The real revelation came for me when I changed the head on my one and only drum which was a tack head from a fairly thick mule to a very thin mule. There was a big difference in the openness of the sound but I did not have facility in my technique to take full advantage of the new head. It wasn't until one of the experts I had been listening to played my drum in a dance class just what that drum could really sound like. He pulled tones out of my drum that I never heard before. The open notes were long and bright, his muffs were full and woody, the base notes could be felt in the pit of your stomach and his slaps were like glass breaking. That was not all he also pulled gradations of all those notes with soft, medium and hard touches of the drum. I could hear my poor old tack head talking inside the rhythm for the first time. Man I was blown away ! Bottom line, it is all in the touch. Much of this is lost when playing on thick heads.

Facundo

Facundo,

Not to disagree with you about thick/thin skins, but I don't like skins that is too thin.

With thick skins, I like them if it matches with the shell or the drum's purpose. I see many congueros ( not rumberos) putting some seriously too thick of a skin on a quinto. Its like they are fighting themselves to get a good tone. WHy is beyond me. Maybe to rid of some ringing may be a factor, but why kill yourself and the tone?
On the other hand, a too thin skin sounds more like a djembe to me. In certain situations it may be a good thing, but in most situations -at least for me- I opt for at least a medium skin for cow/steer. Mule is another story. I do like the slaps from a thinner skin, its more like a crack then slap. However I like a slap tone to be more of a pop sound then a crack in some cases.
I tend to use a differnet drum for a different tone I want-even if the set is mis matched. Depends on the venue I suppose.

So I think it boils down to what the venue / situation is, however gravitate to at least a medium/thick skin .

Just my opinion

T

Tonio wrote:Facundo,

Not to disagree with you about thick/thin skins, but I don't like skins that is too thin.

With thick skins, I like them if it matches with the shell or the drum's purpose. I see many congueros ( not rumberos) putting some seriously too thick of a skin on a quinto. Its like they are fighting themselves to get a good tone. WHy is beyond me. Maybe to rid of some ringing may be a factor, but why kill yourself and the tone?
On the other hand, a too thin skin sounds more like a djembe to me. In certain situations it may be a good thing, but in most situations -at least for me- I opt for at least a medium skin for cow/steer. Mule is another story. I do like the slaps from a thinner skin, its more like a crack then slap. However I like a slap tone to be more of a pop sound then a crack in some cases.
I tend to use a differnet drum for a different tone I want-even if the set is mis matched. Depends on the venue I suppose.

So I think it boils down to what the venue / situation is, however gravitate to at least a medium/thick skin .

Just my opinion

T

Tonio,

Your points are certainly well taken and I am not in disagreement with you either. Again, I am not discounting anyone's personal taste. I do think that those who rave about the sound of thick heads are really fooling themselves and to a large degree have not fully developed their technique for getting the full range of sounds out of thiner heads. Yes, I do think there is such a thing as too thin for congas.

Best regards,
Facundo