Extending a collar...

[Sakuntu]

Hi Folks, this is a weird question but I wanted to throw my Idea at you all and see what you think. I just put a steer skin (from L&H percussion)on an old 29inch tall LP palisades park conga for a guy. The head sounded and looked great but the guy said he wanted the collar lower (Like how the original skin was). I advised him that a shorter collar allows for a longer tuning life in the drum but it seems he's more interested in the esthetics. So now I'm faced with trying to get the collar lower for the guy. Here's my thoughts.... what if I put a small amount of water in the tub, turn the conga upside down and put it in the water allowing just the playing surface of the head to get wet and soft. Then i'll crank the lugs a couple of times until the head stretches out and the desired collar length is reached. What do you think? Would this work? Has anyone every had this request before?

Heres the skin

[Mike]

Here's my thoughts.... what if I put a small amount of water in the tub, turn the conga upside down and put it in the water allowing just the playing surface of the head to get wet and soft. Then i'll crank the lugs a couple of times until the head stretches out and the desired collar length is reached. What do you think? Would this work? Has anyone every had this request before?

0613090922.jpg

I would do the same - only that I would unmount the skin first.
Having put the skin with the hoop upside down on a waterproof surface, you then can pour just about half an inch or so of cold water into it, let it soak for a couple of hours, depending on the skin´s thickness, and then remount it and CAREFULLY "cranking" it up.

I have done this before, I just guess it works best the newer the skin is. There is no problem with applying this stretching method water buffalo factory heads.

As you say, a very skin or rather rim position is not always our preference, but in the case of your buddy, I would commence in the way depicted above.

Cheers & all the best
-Mike

P.S.: I have seen that there has been quite some pressure on the steer skin when mounting, cf. the whiteish areas at the bearing edge. You should oil them lightly in my opinion.

[Isaac]

You can certainly comply with your friends notions, but you will be seriously sacrificing
the life and sound quality of this skin. It won't be as well seated as the first time
you mounted it. I've been mounting skins since 1980, and helped and taught many how to do it..
In my opinion, it's already pulled down too far in the photo...but this is my own subjective personal opinion
and some may disagree.

Have your friend look at photos of newly mounted skins by Skin on Skin,
Matthew Smith and JCR. They tend to follow the opposite principal of your friend,
and for very good expert reasons. The old skin he wants to emulate, he must keep in
mind, got pulled down over a very long period of playing & break in time.
Thats like wanting to buy stone washed jeans with rips already in the knees to look cool.
Nothing wrong with that if that's your real goal.

~ Isaac

[ABAKUA]

Isaac, always so diplomatic. I agree with everything Isaac has said, but also would like to add that the guy who is asking you to do this to the skin is an idiot.

[Sakuntu]

Issac,
I'm with you about the whole thing...apparently this guy has an old set of congas that have well worn in steer skins that are totally seeated and stretched down. He loved the sound and feel and when the conga skin broke, he wanted something with the same sound and feel. I put the rim a bit higher than where a pre mounted LP head would be, giving it time to sit, break in, and age like a fine wine. I advised him of this but apparently its not what he was looking for....hes the customer...so i'm just trying to give him what he wants. He told me that he feels his set of LP Giovannis also have a higher collar than he likes. Maybe its his technique thats leading him to want a larger collar. Who knows... great feedback folks. Thanks

[Sakuntu]

So met with the gentleman today, and apparently its an issue of his technique. No problem...Got to make it easy for folks to enjoy playing the conga... heres a shot of the head and the original length of the collar... Issac, I value your opinion, would you still consider this collar to low? (I'm thinking or reskinning my own tubs next!)

The next is a shot of Mikes suggestion (filling it with water then remounting.... so we'll see how it goes...next time i mount a skin for someone I'll ask how low they want the collar

original collar length

[Mike]

Well, that original collar looks or rather looked fine to me!

Of course some guys here would have liked to put it higher, no doubt.
But anyway, you are doing your job well for that fellow. Just do not
pull the skin down TOO low, alright?

[Isaac]

Aha...If it's technique or lack thereof, your friend is trying
to protect his wrists from injury ...and this will only allow
him more time to continue bad habits.

Here's my take on this and you'll likely get a similar view
from Matthew Smith, Jay Bereck or Caly Rivera -

If you hold up your arm, and look at your wrist, from the thumb area
and down several inches, we have a very vulnerable area
that can be at risk - from an accidental slap or improper technique.
Even some with well practiced technique can have an accident
in the heat of the moment making music.
There are a few famous Congueros who've had wrist surgery.

The reasoning in keeping a rim higher, more level with the thumb,
is that this places the rim well above the vulnerable area. You can even
rest you stronger "heel area" on the rim without causing any nerve damage.
Some call this an "anchor" position.
Should you have the same accident there would be less injury.

A second factor is that the less hide wrapping around down the conga's rim & body, the less
you are dampening the vibrations of the skin.
I suspect that's what the Toca people where aiming at erroneously, when
they came up with the overly wide "extended collar" crowns. LP and Meinl
have them also, but less exxagerated. They pull the skin outward at an angle
vs strait down. They got it half right at least. What all of them failed to
take into consideration, is that the wider emptier hollow area under the crown
becomes a tinny echo chamber adding those overtones many here don't appreciate.

If you follow the traditions of the original Vergara as Dario (Omelenko) has often
posted here , you'll be following the true sound a conga should have. A water buffalo
does not, I repeat, does not have the correct sound for a conga. If someone thinks it
does, than they have not listened enough to the real thing, and need to go back
to the earlier records.

The Vergara is still the role model of our best conga craftsmen.
We can't all have access to or afford a handmade conga, and they may be overkill
for your level of musical activity or wallets, but a good cow, steer or mule skin,
as the old Vergaras had is within our reach, and will improve any
fiberglass or mass produced conga.

Sakuntu, keep up the good work! and encourage your friend to revisit his
technique.

ISAAC

[CongaTick]

Can I shorten a collar usingthe same head watering technique, and how dificult would that be?

[Sakuntu]

Tick, This technique here won't shorten the collar if its already stretched out. It is possible to shorten the collar, but you have to soak the whole skin, take out the flesh hoop and re tuck it. I've taken old stretched out bongo and congas heads, soaked them all then re tucked them in order to shorten the collar, but believe me, its a pain in the... You really need to make sure you have enough skin to work with.

[OLSONGO]

Sakuntu have you tried my technique ?

Paz
Olsongo

[Sakuntu]

No, whats your technique? (buying a new skin? )

[Sakuntu]

Ok, I soaked it down, put it back on and cranked that mutha! It pulled down a lot! Its dry now, and hopefully the gentleman will be pleased. as it pulled thought it totally changed the color of the skin from all the pressure. The drum still sounds good, but I know it won't have as much life had it had time to pull down naturally over the years....heres some shots....

[OLSONGO]

Sakuntu look at my old post , I explain how to put on a skin with very little skin to work with, if you have a low collar and want to shorten it, if you want to get more life out of an old hide. With this tech. you don't need a second hand help especially with those thick hides that love to slide all over the place.
The technique is the stringing of the hide over the hoop as if you where cutting a pizza, it will hold it down while you tension it , you may just need some longer rods. By the way the rods are in I will PM you.

Paz
Olsongo

[Mike]

Ok, I soaked it down, put it back on and cranked that mutha! It pulled down a lot! Its dry now, and hopefully the gentleman will be pleased. as it pulled thought it totally changed the color of the skin from all the pressure. The drum still sounds good, but I know it won't have as much life had it had time to pull down naturally over the years....heres some shots....

Oh my...
If that is really what the guy wanted, well that is it then I suppose.
But it looks really ugly and the skin is stretched like on a rack. It has already
suffered more than necessary and its well-sounding life will be shorter.