Tata Guines on Rauls

[congabluedog]

I was searching some of the posts in the video clips section and found a clip of Miguel Anga' and Tata Guines. I noticed that Tata Guines was playing a set of Rauls. On another clip Anga is using them for a 5 drum piece. Does anyone know if Tata Guines actually played Rauls or was it a one time thing for this show? Being a lover of these drums I was just wondering if anyone knew more about it. Thanks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Vo0uEumo0
Here is the clip of Anga' using same drums. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laweaKqf ... re=related

[pavloconga]

I don't know if Tata played Rauls, but I've gotta say those two particular clips always give me goose bumps!
Two great masters at the height of their powers. Complete control, creativity and mastery.
May Tata and Anga always rest in peace.

[Omelenko1]

For a number of years Tata Guines was endorsed by Raul Percussion out of Sao Paulo, on a trip to NYC in the late 80's Tata presented Mongo with a Raul quinto made specially for Mongo. I shipped that quinto to the Smithonian after Mongo passed in 2003, as per Nancy, Mongo's daughter instructions. I know Mongo used the Raul requinto on some of his Concord recordings. Amadito Valdes, timbalero for the Afro Cuban All Stars was also endorsed by Raul and used their timbales.
Raul eventually became Bauer, but in my opinion Raul was a more quality product. Raul congas project superior sound and are built very solid. Beautiful quality drums.

Dario

[congabluedog]

Hi Dario...Thanks for the info. The drums are just like the ones I got from you. Often I have heard masters playing LPs or other brands and the drums sound so much better than the ones you can buy. You just know that the heads are better or something. With the Rauls,,,,mine sound incredible...same as the ones Tata Guines was playing. Only I can"t play anywhere near as good of course.

I have another question. I have another Raul, later model, that is also a beautiful drum. The problem is that the head was changed to mule and the sound is completely dif. It sounds great but not the warm dry sound with the original wood/ skin combo. I was sent the original head and I can't put it on. It barely fits. I actually have been able to mount it but it won't tune...The rim just won't catch the head correctly. Any ideas? I bought the drum because I wanted a 3 drum set....but it doesn't work with the others.

Also...I have acquired 2 Bauers...Tumba and Super Tumba. Onehas original head and one has an LP head. Same thing...one sounds great and one is lacking in that sound. Will the company sell me a head? If I get it will it fit right or maybe there will be problems like the Raul I have. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Does anyone out there have any original heads to sell?

By the way Dario...I have my eyes on the blue sparkles. I was hoping they wouldn't sell so I could get them down the road. But I am glad for you that you sold them.

[jorge]

Often I have heard masters playing LPs or other brands and the drums sound so much better than the ones you can buy. You just know that the heads are better or something.

Hi Congabluedog,
Part of the difference may be better skins. The main difference is technique. Master drummers can get sounds out of a drum that intermediate and even advanced players can't get out of the same drum. This is learned, not genetic, and comes from dedicating a huge amount of time and effort to PLAYING the drum, as well as finding excellent teachers and getting them to help you learn. If you spend your time focusing on which drum sounds better and acquiring better instruments, you will never get there. Get a good drum and skin, which it looks like you already have, then forget about new drums and focus for a few years on perfecting the sounds you can get out of the drum you have, and you can learn too. It takes time, concentration, listening, and patience and is a lot harder but much more effective than wheeling and dealing to get better instruments. Or become a drum dealer. Your choice.

[congabluedog]

Hi Jorge...just wanted to comment on your post. Thanks for the advice but you have a lot of assumptions about me. First of all...I have studied for many years and still study. I have sought out some really amazing teachers, Eddie Bobe, John Amira, George Delgado and others. I have spent countless hours trying to perfect the tone or the slap or whatever I am working on. Some of the lessons I had with Mr. Bobe started at 3:30 and ended after midnight. I would be ready to pass out. Anyway..I am a serious student and Music teacher....but I will still realistically say that I do not play in the league of Tata Guines or Anga or my teachers .

Now, I also happen to love drums...and I love collecting them. I play all of my drums...I have some favorites for sure, but I play them all. And I know that mule heads on Rauls do not sound any where near the warmth of the original skins.....I don't care what master drummer you might be...the drum is going to have a dif. sound. Not all people care about these subtleties. Nor can all people hear the differences....maybe you fall into this catagory. I hear the differences between drums and heads...and I find it fun to figure this stuff out and fun to pay attention to detail. Anyway...just a little about me.

[jorge]

Hi Congabluedog,
Pleased to meet you, and I am glad to hear you have studied with my friend Eddie Bobe, he can teach you a lot. I am not making any assumptions about your technique or commitment, other than that all of us are still students and can improve our technique further. I was just trying to make the point that since you seem to value the sound of the drum, and you already have great drums, the time you spend searching for even better sounding drums might be better spent making the drums you have sound like you want them to sound. All of us, even master drummers, can still tweak our technique to sound even better, and you probably can too. It takes a lot of time over many many years to perfect your sounds, and you still continue to improve.

That said, you are right to focus on the skin as a major determinant of the sound. The old skin you have might still be usable, but I would recommend against trying to just put it on a different drum dry. If it is in reasonable condition and the flesh hoop and dry wrapped skin fit well inside the metal lug rim of your drum, you may be able to re-soak the skin until it is softened but not completely soaked, and gently re-fit that skin onto the new drum. I like to put a very thin coating of waterproof bicycle bearing grease on the shell bearing edge so the skin won't stick as it dries. Put the lugs back on and tighten it down only very slightly and very carefully as used skins can rip even more easily than new skins when they are wet. You just want to get the old skin to take the shape of the new bearing edge. Then let it dry as if it were a new skin.

If you are still in the NYC area, you should come to the rumba at Esquina Habanera 10 pm every Saturday night, Summit & 14th in Union City, NJ. It is not really an open rumba, but there are excellent drummers who get great sound out of decent, but not great, drums and cajones. Some nights the dancers and singers are great too.

[congabluedog]

Hi Jorge....I guess what I want to say is that it seems that there are members who judge collectors, and assume that they are not players just because they have a passion for the drums themselves. I played for many many years on a set of Remo tubano's....I didn't even have "real" congas. When John at John's Music in seattle got a whole bunch of Rauls in, I fell in love with the sound. I couldn' t afford to get even one....I had no spare $ at all. Now that I am a teacher here in NY I am in a better financial situation and I can buysome of the drums I love. I only was able to start getting some nice drums 2 or 3 years ago. I guess you could call the drum collecting a hobby, a passion. But my drumming is a love that I will always follow. It is never the drum...it is the player...but I love the drums too.

[Omelenko1]

Jaquie you have some incredible drums in your posession. Rauls, SOS, Juniors, Armando's Gon Bops. I change heads on my machos every couple of years, not the hembras. Maybe you should take the machos to Cali or L & H and have the skins replaced. A new head makes a conga sing after is broken in. That Raul macho you have always had a superb sound, is the original head still sounding good? Take your machos to Boys Harbor and have Almendra or Louie Bauzo evaluate the skins on them, maybe is time you change them.

Dario

[congabluedog]

Hey Dario...The Rauls I bought from you are still great....The heads are fine. I bought another Raul to complete set...that one isn't sounding so good. Mule skin was put on it and it makes the drum sound completely dif. I have the original head...when I tried to put it on the rim doesn't catch the head. It doesn't tune up. Any suggestions?

[Omelenko1]

I will try light soaking, or what I 've done also is wetting a bath towell and placing it on top of the skin for a few hours, this will soften the head and you can try to fit it so that it will catch the bearing edge and let it dry. Once it dries it will have the contour of the bearing edge and it will tune nicely. I'm surprised a new mule skin does not sound good on that drum.

Dario

[congabluedog]

Thanks Dario...I will try...maybe I will post pics so you can see the problem more clearly. The mule head sounds good...but not that warm crisp sound of Raul original heads. Thanks

[jorge]

Just be careful, like I said a few posts up, not to rip the damp skin. That is easier to do than you would think, I have done it more than once trying to re-fit an old skin to a different drum. The weakest part will be where the skin curves down over the bearing edge. Even just dampening the skin with a towel can weaken it a lot. If you are gentle with the damp skin, it should work fine. Once it is dry, it will be as strong as it was on the other drum.

Since you are in NYC, you should come to the Central Park rumba on Sundays. We play every Sunday, if it doesn't rain, from about 5 to 10 pm. We are on the benches next to the lake where the boats are, by a small bridge, around the 72nd St level. After dark we move up to the fountain area under the lights. You will hear the drums as you walk across the 72nd St transverse road.

[pavloconga]

Often I have heard masters playing LPs or other brands and the drums sound so much better than the ones you can buy. You just know that the heads are better or something.

Hi Congabluedog,
Part of the difference may be better skins. The main difference is technique. Master drummers can get sounds out of a drum that intermediate and even advanced players can't get out of the same drum. This is learned, not genetic, and comes from dedicating a huge amount of time and effort to PLAYING the drum, as well as finding excellent teachers and getting them to help you learn. .

Totally agree with Jorge on this one.

A great example of this: A couple of months back the Afro Cuban All Stars played at a major 4 day music event here in Australia.
A good friend of mine happened to be the minder for some of the members of the band while they we were in town.

Over the weekend we were lucky enough to have a lesson with the All Star's percussionist Pepe Espinosa at my mate's place. The friend owns just a basic pair of LP 'Accents' model congas with cow skins. I've played this particular set of congas many times and they are ok but nothing special.

But Pepe really knew how to make make those drums sing. He achieved the whole range of sounds and nuances played with complete mastery. In fact he asked my mate if he could borrow his congas for the actual concerts. I was at the concert and he made those basic LP congas sound amazing. Sometimes Pepe's playing on that night reminded me of the tonality and style of Anga's playing from some of their original recordings.

[congabluedog]

I couldn't agree more...It is the drummer not the drums. A great drummer will make any conga sing...no arguement here. But they can't make a colder sounding drum into a warmer sounding drum. They will play whatever drum they have and make that drum with its qualities or lack of qualities sound amazing.

With that said...This post was about whether Tata played Rauls. Then I asked a specific question about a Raul head and problem putting original head back on. Jorge...The head I am trying to put back on was the original head for this drum, not some other drum head...It doesn't seem to fit correctly anymore. It goes on the top of drum but won't tune up. Rim doesn't catch it for tuning. It seems too small...not the right shape or something. But it is supposed to be original head.