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Here is a photo of the 2 masters at the Blue Note. Tito stated " after Mongo left in 1958, I had to drop a lot of tunes from the playing list, for example Para Los Rumberos, nobody back then could play quinto like Mongo so that's one of the tunes I dropped". Mongo brought the hardcore rhythms to that band, the incredible fast quinto solo in Para Los Rumbeors and the 6 x 8 Abakua, Ñañigo tunes. Back then in NYC no one knew the core African rhythms (la Semilla) like Mongo did. Back then no one could touch Mongo in NYC.

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That's life, age catches up with us all. But during those times Sabu, Ray B., Patato, Candido, Armando, Francisco were young as well, but Mongo was the "Michael Jordan" of the bunch. Nobody could touch him playing quinto and no one knew more intriquete African ryhthms ( Palo, Arara, Bantu......) than Mongo did.

Could be so about the folklore, especially for the cats here, but aguabella was a beast when it came to the afro-cuban rhythems, and tata could swing on a quinto.

Omelenko, the key words in your first post were "in NYC". Obviously this is subjective and there is much personal preference involved, but there were several other quinto players, contemporaries of Mongo in the 50s and 60s, whose quinto styles I much prefer to Mongo's. These were ChaCha and Pelladito of Guaguanco Matancero (Muñequitos), Papin (Los Papines), and Giraldo Rodriguez (recorded on quinto with Alberto Zayas). In the US, Papaito Muñoz played a killer quinto (several cuts on Patato y Totico were Papaito on quinto not Patato). Patato and Aguabella also played some real nice quinto, certainly in the same league as Mongo. Mongo was the best businessman with the clearest career focus, maybe the strongest physically, and maybe the friendliest and easiest to work with, but not the best quinto.

Well I think everyone is entitled to their oipinions. In my opinion, my many years of seeing, being involved and listening to rumba, I think Mongo on quinto was unparallel, much tastier stronger cleaner slaps, tapaos than Patato, Francisco and Papin, the other gentlemen I'm not too familiar with. In 1958 Jose Fajardo came to the Palladium in NYC, with him on tumbadora came Tata (Federico Aristides Soto), Cachao came on bass, Pupi Legarreta and Chombo on violins. I had an old friend who was a waiter at Roseland back in those days and he frequented the Palladium. He went to see Fajardo on opening night, back then only one microphone for the orchestra, this is what he said: "Tata's playing had lot of finess, a lot of technique, very clean, but if you stood 10 feet from the orchestra you could not hear the tumba. When Tito played if you were in the bathroom taking a piss, Mongo's tumbadora sound would bounce off the wall". Back in those days, Mongo was the source, this is what Ray Barretto said. JC, I need your 2 cents on this one.

Like you said, everybody's got their opinions, Mongo definitely was one of the more powerful players, I don't think the fastest, definitely clean though. I saw tata here in houston when he toured with cubanizmo, vizcaino was also on that tour, he may have not been as loud or as powerful as Mongo, but man his slaps were crisp and clean and nobody could roll like him, his open tone rolls were phenomenal, even at his advanced age. As far as folkloric rhythms, of that group I think aguabella had the most knowledge, coming from Matanzas, the cuna of afro-cuban rythms he was a treasure trove of knowledge. Everybody's going to have their favorites, so yeah, also you have to separate the guys who came over from the guys who stayed, I really wouldn't compare mongo to a guy like Papin, papin lives quinto, one of my personal favorites. PC

Omelenko1 wrote:...I think Mongo on quinto was unparallel, much tastier stronger cleaner slaps, tapaos than Patato, Francisco and Papin, the other gentlemen I'm not too familiar with...

Before you make a statement that Mongo on quinto was unparallelled, you need to at least be familiar with his contemporaries playing rumba quinto in Cuba in the 50s and 60s. There is more to quinto playing than slaps, tapaos and strength. Giraldo Rodriguez played quinto on Alberto Zayas' classic rumba recording, you need to listen to that. Listen to Conjunto Guaguanco Matancero with Angel Pelladito or ChaCha on quinto (at different times), the classic song "Los Muñequitos", and all the rumbas of the early Muñequitos from the 50s and 60s. In my opinion, Mongo's rumba quinto is not in the same league with any of those 3 guys. I completely agree with you that Mongo was one of the most powerful and tastiest conga players of all time, when it came to being heard over an amplified band and playing with Latin Jazz and popular music, but that is not quinto playing. Different worlds, band playing and rumba quinto.

Attached see photo in Casa De Las Americas. There you see Ray Barretto (RIP) Mongo (RIP) los Papines, Ricardo Abreu (RIP). Here they are playing Rumba (guaguanco). See who's on quinto. I'm very familar with the early recordings of "Los Muñequtos", Alberto Zayas y Coj. De Guaguanco Matancero, I have had the albums for over 40 yrs. Do you have "Yambu" and "Mongo" Fantasy label, do you have "Drums and Chants" on the Tico label? I suggest you give a listen. Those were the first rumba albums ever produced ouside of Cuba, I also have a 1952 SMC (Spanish Music Center) rumba album by Mongo. Speaking of pioneers "en la Yuma". In the 50's Mongo could have played rock and roll, instead he recorded the first rumba albums ever produced in this country, knowing that there will be no commercial acceptance to such products, I tip my hat off to that. He left a legacy for reference to future generations on Afro Cuban rhythms.

Supersize photo!

Dario

Very nice picture, when it supersizes!

who made those congas, what kind?

the last player on a conga , on the opposit side of Barreto by the pailas, looks like the maraca player, and guiro for Hector Lavoe
is it him, he was young when he started with Lavoe...

whats his name?

Those are Los Papines from Cuba. Hector Lavoe does not have anything to do with with these guys. The congas are SONOC made in Cuba.

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Thanx Leddy!

U know evryones name... who was someone in the music industry

Omelenko1 wrote:Attached see photo in Casa De Las Americas. There you see Ray Barretto (RIP) Mongo (RIP) los Papines, Ricardo Abreu (RIP). Here they are playing Rumba (guaguanco). See who's on quinto. I'm very familar with the early recordings of "Los Muñequtos", Alberto Zayas y Coj. De Guaguanco Matancero, I have had the albums for over 40 yrs. Do you have "Yambu" and "Mongo" Fantasy label, do you have "Drums and Chants" on the Tico label? I suggest you give a listen. Those were the first rumba albums ever produced ouside of Cuba, I also have a 1952 SMC (Spanish Music Center) rumba album by Mongo. Speaking of pioneers "en la Yuma". In the 50's Mongo could have played rock and roll, instead he recorded the first rumba albums ever produced in this country, knowing that there will be no commercial acceptance to such products, I tip my hat off to that. He left a legacy for reference to future generations on Afro Cuban rhythms.
Supersize photo!
Dario

Papines, Mongo, Barretto.jpg

This area I have much to learn about so I mostly read and listen but there is one thing I can share hat might be useful. I have a CD of Mongo's "Our Man in Havana" (Fantasy 8045) that is a double album CD with the original "Bembe" (Fantasy 8055) This might be an easier way for many here to get their hands on Mongo's "Bembe" which on it's own might be hard to find and it is nicely paired with "Our Man in Havana".

Pardon any mistakes I make for I am reading off the label. Bembe has the sacred rhythms and chants and interestingly Mongo's brother Luis is listed on the disc as well. Also Bembe has Merceditas Valdes, Macucho, Mario Arenas, Carlos Embale, Finco, and the Great Willie Bobo. Our Man in Havana has El Fine, Armandito, Julio, Paquito, Nino Rivera, Pepito, Bol, Willie Bobo, Yeyito, Gustavito, Cheo Junco and Armando Raymact.



I appreciate all of the knowledge and wisdom shared here. Thank you and respect.

Jerry Bembe wrote:

This area I have much to learn about so I mostly read and listen but there is one thing I can share hat might be useful. I have a CD of Mongo's "Our Man in Havana" that is a double album CD with the original "Bembe". This might be an easier way for many here to get their hands on Mongo's "Bembe" which on it's own might be hard to find and it is nicely paired with "Our Man in Havana". Bembe has the sacred rhythms and chants and interestingly Mongo's brother is listed on the disc as well. I would need to dig up the disc for any additional information though.

I appreciate all of the knowledge and wisdom shared here. Thank you and respect.
Jerry Bembe

I have that CD as well, its a double. I have the 2 original fantasy albums "Our Man In Havana" and "Mongo in Havana" (now called Bembe). Mongo in Havana is a very flockloric album of rumba and Palo and Abakua rhythms. Mongo used Carlos Embale to sing guaguanco and his cousin (not his brother) Luis Santamaria to sign "Telemina" an Abakua 6 x 8 tune. One of Mongo's best albums.

Dario