Rumba Quinto Book - How do you like the book?
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by TresGolpes » Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:41 pm
Yes, the s is a slap (any hand will do) and the S is a slap with an emphasis...I don't use Left-Right notation for two reasons: some people are left handed and also because I always aim to be ambidextrous with both hands as it comes to emphasis...Sometimes my starting position is always the right dominant hand, but the pattern may demand a dominant emphasis on the left midpoint into it...The small s meant unemphasized slaps in 4/4. So sSs are quarter notes, the first count at the beginning of a beat. And for emphasis you don't need to hit the head so hard, congas sound much deeper when you "surprise" the drum, suddenly and with authority, then bounce out it immediately. Practice a "falling movement" instead of a beating movement where the hand/arm is always exerting force.
I realize that for some this "psycho babble" may sound academic, the point is this: you have to whack the listeners with your "point", over and over again, sometimes when they expect it...and sometimes syncopated when they least expect it...its always a thrill to watch people rocking their heads up and down and ZAPPP, your "point" comes somewhere else and literally jolts them...that is a very personal thing that is up to each of us when we do it.
Some of these "points" could be as simple as an ending S, it will always come down to that solitary note, an S
000 S
000 S
s-s S
00- S
Ss- S
Written here in a vertical fashion to emphasize that S !
There are a lot of traditions, e.g. Palo Monte, that start with very short phrases, 0-S, where you can build a 100 story building of variations, still keeping it within O-S...Visit http://1ww.free.fr/ and take some of the rhythms (e.g. Bomba, Guaganco, Bembe) and develop your own phrases from the rhythm fragments...or if you are more adventurous take it from Bata...lots of 6/8 fragments there...you will see that these phrases become very distinct, even as you surround them with lots of fills and rolls...
And if you like rolls, check out some Belly Dancing music or Indian Tablas, they do a lot of short roll groupings as phrases themselves, very very interesting !
Another point: Open tones "bounce the drum" and ready it for that slap...the slaps become much sharper when the head is bounced a few times before you crack it...listen to a Carnaval comparsa, you will see many open tones followed by 2-3 slaps...don't be so slap happy...more opens and muffled will add a lot of variety to your solos...
Now something else that plagues quinto players:
1) SPEED IS YOUR ENEMY ! I know, we all try to impress as to how fast we all are, but the faster you go the less clarity you get...to me its that clear/precise statement that I make on the drum more important than how many statements I can cram into a solo. Too many rolls muddy your statement, use rolls sparingly...Aim to drum with Authority not Speed !
2) The drum approach is many times more important than the pattern itself: sSs-SS is very important but to the listener it sound completely different when:
a) You go from high hand positions to low, straight down
b) You go choppy style, side to side high on the drum
c) You play it even and fast
3) And this one I learned in public speaking class: Silence is as important as the words themselves...the dramatic pauses, the underlying peacefulness where you are inserting your notes...work with that precious silence as your friend...color it with notes with plenty of spacing of different time lengths...that is much more important to an avalanche of notes....Tata Guines said that too many percussionists want to impress him with these complicated rolls and whacking that drum really hard, with no real statement being made...its like a boxer that flays away with no concept of a target...Have you seen those flyweights that punch thousands of times and their opponents hardly feel them ?...they just wear themselves out and show how little "class" they have ! Aim for those "Cracks from the Sky", like Chango cracks with lightning the earth like a giant drum !
4) In another thread there was a mention of Olatunji passing away...I have drummed with him in many places, he was the initial inspiration to me that all of my musical efforts are not about just drumming, that you have to SING and DANCE, that you have to develop yourself as a WHOLE HUMAN BEING, at all levels, which will exponentially improve your drumming style. The old rumberos of the past: Malanga, Mulense, Chano, Papa Montero, Rene where more complete than todays rumberos, they SANG and DANCED with their whole being, and when they sat on the drum...well, you know what happens...
If you want to see or hear some examples of the drumming styles in audio or video, see
High to low style, choppy style - Patato, Papin, tend to play really high on the drum. See the videos of the Munequitos or AfroCuba de Matanzas and you will see them too.
Fast, low on the drum, lots of rolls - Richie Flores the king of rolls appears in a lot of CDs, also Giovanni Hidalgo and Anga
Precise + Clear style - Check out Dudu Tucci, Weltwunder.com, extremely interesting.
All of the above, of course, will play other styles, I include them as EXAMPLES of what they tend to do in the recordings I have seen. These styles may change in a solo as the drummer's inspiration and mood changes, so they are not a hard and fast rule...
In any case, this thread is about Cliff's book, let's keep it focused on that, these are suggestions for Volume II, anybody else has techniques to include here ?
Edited By TresGolpes on April 11 2003 at 17:22
I realize that for some this "psycho babble" may sound academic, the point is this: you have to whack the listeners with your "point", over and over again, sometimes when they expect it...and sometimes syncopated when they least expect it...its always a thrill to watch people rocking their heads up and down and ZAPPP, your "point" comes somewhere else and literally jolts them...that is a very personal thing that is up to each of us when we do it.
Some of these "points" could be as simple as an ending S, it will always come down to that solitary note, an S
000 S
000 S
s-s S
00- S
Ss- S
Written here in a vertical fashion to emphasize that S !
There are a lot of traditions, e.g. Palo Monte, that start with very short phrases, 0-S, where you can build a 100 story building of variations, still keeping it within O-S...Visit http://1ww.free.fr/ and take some of the rhythms (e.g. Bomba, Guaganco, Bembe) and develop your own phrases from the rhythm fragments...or if you are more adventurous take it from Bata...lots of 6/8 fragments there...you will see that these phrases become very distinct, even as you surround them with lots of fills and rolls...
And if you like rolls, check out some Belly Dancing music or Indian Tablas, they do a lot of short roll groupings as phrases themselves, very very interesting !
Another point: Open tones "bounce the drum" and ready it for that slap...the slaps become much sharper when the head is bounced a few times before you crack it...listen to a Carnaval comparsa, you will see many open tones followed by 2-3 slaps...don't be so slap happy...more opens and muffled will add a lot of variety to your solos...
Now something else that plagues quinto players:
1) SPEED IS YOUR ENEMY ! I know, we all try to impress as to how fast we all are, but the faster you go the less clarity you get...to me its that clear/precise statement that I make on the drum more important than how many statements I can cram into a solo. Too many rolls muddy your statement, use rolls sparingly...Aim to drum with Authority not Speed !
2) The drum approach is many times more important than the pattern itself: sSs-SS is very important but to the listener it sound completely different when:
a) You go from high hand positions to low, straight down
b) You go choppy style, side to side high on the drum
c) You play it even and fast
3) And this one I learned in public speaking class: Silence is as important as the words themselves...the dramatic pauses, the underlying peacefulness where you are inserting your notes...work with that precious silence as your friend...color it with notes with plenty of spacing of different time lengths...that is much more important to an avalanche of notes....Tata Guines said that too many percussionists want to impress him with these complicated rolls and whacking that drum really hard, with no real statement being made...its like a boxer that flays away with no concept of a target...Have you seen those flyweights that punch thousands of times and their opponents hardly feel them ?...they just wear themselves out and show how little "class" they have ! Aim for those "Cracks from the Sky", like Chango cracks with lightning the earth like a giant drum !
4) In another thread there was a mention of Olatunji passing away...I have drummed with him in many places, he was the initial inspiration to me that all of my musical efforts are not about just drumming, that you have to SING and DANCE, that you have to develop yourself as a WHOLE HUMAN BEING, at all levels, which will exponentially improve your drumming style. The old rumberos of the past: Malanga, Mulense, Chano, Papa Montero, Rene where more complete than todays rumberos, they SANG and DANCED with their whole being, and when they sat on the drum...well, you know what happens...
If you want to see or hear some examples of the drumming styles in audio or video, see
High to low style, choppy style - Patato, Papin, tend to play really high on the drum. See the videos of the Munequitos or AfroCuba de Matanzas and you will see them too.
Fast, low on the drum, lots of rolls - Richie Flores the king of rolls appears in a lot of CDs, also Giovanni Hidalgo and Anga
Precise + Clear style - Check out Dudu Tucci, Weltwunder.com, extremely interesting.
All of the above, of course, will play other styles, I include them as EXAMPLES of what they tend to do in the recordings I have seen. These styles may change in a solo as the drummer's inspiration and mood changes, so they are not a hard and fast rule...
In any case, this thread is about Cliff's book, let's keep it focused on that, these are suggestions for Volume II, anybody else has techniques to include here ?
Edited By TresGolpes on April 11 2003 at 17:22
- TresGolpes
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:56 pm
by KingKongas » Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:14 am
Tres Golpes-
You ought to seriously consider putting this thread in the "techniques, rhythm, exercise" post as I'm sure alot of us out here would benefit from your expertise and "psycho-stuff"...
I for one have enjoyed your posts tremendously and have incorporated some of what you put forth in my own drumming. Isn't that what it's all about??? I can't wait to try some of this in my class and see the reaction to my "whacks"!!! I'll let you know how it goes....
I even listen to music a little differently now.... looking for places in the rhythm to add my own thing....
Ray B- you're welcome but TresGolpes gets all the kudos here...
You ought to seriously consider putting this thread in the "techniques, rhythm, exercise" post as I'm sure alot of us out here would benefit from your expertise and "psycho-stuff"...
I for one have enjoyed your posts tremendously and have incorporated some of what you put forth in my own drumming. Isn't that what it's all about??? I can't wait to try some of this in my class and see the reaction to my "whacks"!!! I'll let you know how it goes....
I even listen to music a little differently now.... looking for places in the rhythm to add my own thing....
Ray B- you're welcome but TresGolpes gets all the kudos here...
- KingKongas
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:24 am
- Location: DC metro area
by qualitydag » Wed May 07, 2003 11:37 pm
Ok, here's a thought that I want to share with you all. The practice of technique is VERY important. I came from snare drumming backround as a kid and in high school I was a snare drummer in a marching band. I practiced rudiments like crazy, so I want to say that all this talk about sSs and stuff is something of the utmost importance. Practicing technique will make you able to express profound emotion without have to worry about getting all tangled up.
Now saying this, I can't emphasise the utter importance of getting to caught up in technique at the expense of not knowing how to place articulation in the most funky way possible. I'm concerned that some folks will reley on mathmatical practice only. I've seen many salseros, as I mentioned in another reply, play with tremendous flash, speed, power and technique, all for not. The missed the mark by a universe. The most profound playing one can do is from the core of basics.
Being able to ARTICULATE Afro Cuban Syncopation is an art that releys upon really knowing how to throw just one note anywhere within the clave rhythm and make it shake your whole being.
My teacher used to tell me, "drive through a town at 50 miles per hour and you get through it real fast, take your time, go slow, and you see the real character of it.
no matter how much technique we learn, if we don't know how to place just a single note so that everyone shivers when they hear it, a 1000 rolls or 16th or 32 or 64th or flams or ratamcues or paradiddles won't mean a thing except for the person who is playing them. I admit that I am very impressed when I see Jiovanni playing, but it doesn't bring me to the state of grace that pancho quinto's phrasing does or Papaito on the timbalitos.
Now, try this:
lets say you have a phrase
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
Lets divide this phrase into sections
1. ssss.
2. o.o.oo.
3. ssss.
4. ssooo.
5. o.o.
6. sss..
Pick a section to place a roll in and make it play until you get to the next section, then come in right on time. Do this in each of the sections, then try placing a roll within a section but coming back out of it before you leave the section. Try placing a roll for just one or two notes within a section and then keep right on playing the rest of the phrase without loosing time.
This is a good way to learn to have restrictions with a technique so that you don't loose the sense of funkiness that the phrase offers. Don't give up the root language for a misplaced or exagerated technique.
Another thing that you can practice is:
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
switching the different sections within the pattern
ssss....ssss.o.o.oo.sss.sss..o.o
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.ss.....
...o.o.oosso.o.oossooo.ssss.ss..
This is a good way to learn how make ideas out of ideas
The next thing you can practice is how to make ideas out of ideas so that they have something to do with each other, in other words make them flow into each other.
This is where having a root sense of the articulation needed to express oneself comes in extemely helpful.
This you can only learn, in my opinnion, by banging out basic syncopation so that you know where it feels good to throw down in a particular moment or NOT.
Dudes, hopefully I didn't sound to "DO IT MY WAY" if I did, sorry abou that. Clifford qualitydag@earthlink.net
Now saying this, I can't emphasise the utter importance of getting to caught up in technique at the expense of not knowing how to place articulation in the most funky way possible. I'm concerned that some folks will reley on mathmatical practice only. I've seen many salseros, as I mentioned in another reply, play with tremendous flash, speed, power and technique, all for not. The missed the mark by a universe. The most profound playing one can do is from the core of basics.
Being able to ARTICULATE Afro Cuban Syncopation is an art that releys upon really knowing how to throw just one note anywhere within the clave rhythm and make it shake your whole being.
My teacher used to tell me, "drive through a town at 50 miles per hour and you get through it real fast, take your time, go slow, and you see the real character of it.
no matter how much technique we learn, if we don't know how to place just a single note so that everyone shivers when they hear it, a 1000 rolls or 16th or 32 or 64th or flams or ratamcues or paradiddles won't mean a thing except for the person who is playing them. I admit that I am very impressed when I see Jiovanni playing, but it doesn't bring me to the state of grace that pancho quinto's phrasing does or Papaito on the timbalitos.
Now, try this:
lets say you have a phrase
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
Lets divide this phrase into sections
1. ssss.
2. o.o.oo.
3. ssss.
4. ssooo.
5. o.o.
6. sss..
Pick a section to place a roll in and make it play until you get to the next section, then come in right on time. Do this in each of the sections, then try placing a roll within a section but coming back out of it before you leave the section. Try placing a roll for just one or two notes within a section and then keep right on playing the rest of the phrase without loosing time.
This is a good way to learn to have restrictions with a technique so that you don't loose the sense of funkiness that the phrase offers. Don't give up the root language for a misplaced or exagerated technique.
Another thing that you can practice is:
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
switching the different sections within the pattern
ssss....ssss.o.o.oo.sss.sss..o.o
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.ss.....
...o.o.oosso.o.oossooo.ssss.ss..
This is a good way to learn how make ideas out of ideas
The next thing you can practice is how to make ideas out of ideas so that they have something to do with each other, in other words make them flow into each other.
This is where having a root sense of the articulation needed to express oneself comes in extemely helpful.
This you can only learn, in my opinnion, by banging out basic syncopation so that you know where it feels good to throw down in a particular moment or NOT.
Dudes, hopefully I didn't sound to "DO IT MY WAY" if I did, sorry abou that. Clifford qualitydag@earthlink.net
- qualitydag
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2002 7:00 am
by TresGolpes » Thu May 08, 2003 9:12 pm
Thanks Cliff for the emails...
We were discussing offline some of these approaches, the latest topic was Inverting phrases.
To me inverting the phrase will replace the slaps with opens:
SS0
OOS
On the second one, that phrase will have a different recognition structure to the human brain, particularly the ending slap emphasizes "up" in my mind, and in many cases it follows with even more slaps. In a solo I personally don't follow a phrase with its inversion...I use inversion while I am practicing at home simply to "not forget" that there is an associated family of phrases that I need to practice next, but not to thread these two ideas together.
On another thread there is an ongoing discussion of attacking the drums, in other words playing with passionate emotion and direct engagement with the instrument. As far as solos are concerned, I personally do not visualize "attacking" but instead "surprising" the drum.
Attack, to me, signifies lots of aggression which may reflect into an angry tonality to the way the drums are played. Young players, when they come into a group are particularly "attacking" to show how good they are...
The best comparison I have is in boxing: Attacking an opponent is an all-out fling away of flurry after flurry of punches with no rest...Visualize instead sparing with a partner, you are aiming for precision and combinations of punches, in other words, showing your boxing skill by attacking and withdrawing, timed perfectly.
Surprising the drum to me is how the head bounces back and forth and WHACK the slap arrives and withdraws at those magical moments that Cliff was talking about. So you can attack all right, but withdraw to silent rests to emphasize your next surprise...the ebb-and-flow of the Universe !
By the way, there are two new CDs that just came out in Descarga:
Cuando Los Espiritus Bailan Mambo - Yoruba Andabo, Clave Y Guaganco and others.
Guiro para Elegua - Echun Okiri...this is an excellent album on a Guiro ceremony, a relentless attack on a single drum (with lots of chekeres) that clearly shows the value of lots of profound open tones along with muffled ones.
We were discussing offline some of these approaches, the latest topic was Inverting phrases.
To me inverting the phrase will replace the slaps with opens:
SS0
OOS
On the second one, that phrase will have a different recognition structure to the human brain, particularly the ending slap emphasizes "up" in my mind, and in many cases it follows with even more slaps. In a solo I personally don't follow a phrase with its inversion...I use inversion while I am practicing at home simply to "not forget" that there is an associated family of phrases that I need to practice next, but not to thread these two ideas together.
On another thread there is an ongoing discussion of attacking the drums, in other words playing with passionate emotion and direct engagement with the instrument. As far as solos are concerned, I personally do not visualize "attacking" but instead "surprising" the drum.
Attack, to me, signifies lots of aggression which may reflect into an angry tonality to the way the drums are played. Young players, when they come into a group are particularly "attacking" to show how good they are...
The best comparison I have is in boxing: Attacking an opponent is an all-out fling away of flurry after flurry of punches with no rest...Visualize instead sparing with a partner, you are aiming for precision and combinations of punches, in other words, showing your boxing skill by attacking and withdrawing, timed perfectly.
Surprising the drum to me is how the head bounces back and forth and WHACK the slap arrives and withdraws at those magical moments that Cliff was talking about. So you can attack all right, but withdraw to silent rests to emphasize your next surprise...the ebb-and-flow of the Universe !
By the way, there are two new CDs that just came out in Descarga:
Cuando Los Espiritus Bailan Mambo - Yoruba Andabo, Clave Y Guaganco and others.
Guiro para Elegua - Echun Okiri...this is an excellent album on a Guiro ceremony, a relentless attack on a single drum (with lots of chekeres) that clearly shows the value of lots of profound open tones along with muffled ones.
- TresGolpes
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:56 pm
by qualitydag » Thu May 08, 2003 9:41 pm
The great thing I have found for myself is that the more I live, the more I can feel. For instance, when I was much younger, I used to be intimate with women but in a way where I was in a rush to encounter pleasure. Now that I've been around for quite a while I feel so much more and have sooo much more apreciation for women. I'm married now and don't fool around, but I can quietly, to myself savor a woman's presence in a way that I could never have imagined when I was younger.
So in the same way with drumming, I feel, passion, senusality, choppy surprises, deep funkiness of silence all in one. How wonderful it is to play with many textures rather than only exhuberant passion or "LOOK AT HOW GREAT I AM, I AM A GODDDDDDD!" Let's here it for learning and growing in a positive manner!
- qualitydag
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2002 7:00 am
by TresGolpes » Thu May 08, 2003 10:49 pm
Hmmm...interesting analogy...
Tonight I am going to try your
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
while I am making love to my wife...she will say "what is that ?"...I will reply:
There is this guy called Cliff I am corresponding with in the Internet that taught me this !
Tonight I am going to try your
ssss.o.o.oo.ssss.ssooo.o.o.sss..
while I am making love to my wife...she will say "what is that ?"...I will reply:
There is this guy called Cliff I am corresponding with in the Internet that taught me this !
- TresGolpes
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:56 pm
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