New York what are you thinking ?

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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:18 pm

jorge wrote:Yeah, I haven't yet heard great musicians playing Hip Hop or Reggaeton either. But there are other music forms that are becoming popular with the current late teens/early 20s generation that do have some outstanding musicians. Have you listened to Esperanza Spalding? She is a virtuoso jazz musician (voice, acoustic bass) in her 20s and was the youngest professor ever hired to teach at Berklee. Some of the young Cuban percussionists are carrying the evolution forward, and there are even a few in NYC (eg, Caja Dura / Ilu Aye) that are showing great talent and musicianship.


Funny you should mention Esperanza, a fantastic musican I have had the honor of meeting, she was flamed pretty hard by America's youth when she won her well deserved Grammy for best new artist, beating the far more popular Justin Bieber.
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby OLSONGO » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:30 pm

Yes I am very familiar with Esperanza and there is this young piano player Eldar Djangirov who is a monster, but is not like old days when you couldn't count the amount of great Artist in one hand you needed your feet also, now days you are lucky if you get to the middle finger..lol.
Actually Pat Metheny was the younguest to teach at the Berk. 18 yrs old.
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby congamyk » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:47 am

^ Eldar is from Kansas City, he moved here from Russia as a little boy to specifically cut his teeth on KC jazz.

I remember his dad bringing him to all the jazz jam sessions when he was 10 :shock:
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby RitmoBoricua » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:10 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0cVKmkYamU

This is the stuff that is winning Latin Grammys. They are not doing the same old covers. Somebody here said in a nutshell "Engaged The Public" this is exactly what Calle 13 is doing. Not bad I like it.
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby ABAKUA » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:40 am

jorge wrote:where do people think clave-based popular dance music is headed in the next few years? From what Abakua has been saying, Australia seems to be going toward timba Cubana. Where is NYC headed?


Que bola Jorge, while NYC typical salsa is still popular with the great majority of 'dance schools' which pack out the clubs and festivals, it is Salsa Cubana/Timba that has the greatest following though with material for clubs, also with bands, their repertoire is heavilly Cuban influenced, the US style salsa has just round out of steem here, being overrun by the more hardcore grooves of the likes of the popular groups of Cuba.

This is also the case in many European countries and also South America. There is a huge Timba/Salsa Cubana following in these countries. The top Cuban bands are constantly touring Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador, with Peru by far having the most frequently arriving bands from La Habana.
In fact it has proven so fruitful in terms of $$$$ that Tirso Duarte (one of the most powerful modern Cuban singers) has relocated to Colombia and runs a promotional agency booking Cuban artists/bands and events. He is doing very well, lining up tours etc through all of sth and central america, with the likes of Alexander Abreu y Havana D'Primera, Maykel Blanco y Su Salsa Mayor, Pupy, Los Van Van, Charanga Habanera, NG etc etc...
Mayito Rivera has recently left Los Van Van (replaced by Mandy Cantero) and relocating out of Cuba, he is currently based in Colombia due to so much work being offered his way and will soon also be touring with Miami based group Timbalive.

The top Cuban groups are in constant demand throughout Europe, Sth America, Asia, Oceania, and Africa, with on average 4 - 5 of the most popular groups out of the island on tour at any given time, its like tag team, as a few more return, a few more leave, all year round.

As for some prior ignorant comments re me needing to get out of Australia to see whats happening in the world, sorry champ, try again. I have travelled extensively throughout Sth America, US, Europe and Asia, both personal and through music. And recently also, not 30-40 yrs ago when the 'salsa' world was alot different to today.
Not to mention being in constant communication with my contacts throughout these countries and the blogs etc which update whos who and whos travelling where etc...
I choose to return now to Cuba for such a lengthy stay not only because it houses all my favourite musical genres from folkloric to popular modern, but also because of its sheer reality, honesty, creativity, originality and energy, everywhere you turn music is bursting with life and has the 100% support of its people, a truly musically educated and appreciative public.
Live open air rehearsals constantly turn into all out parties with crowds dancing away and partying on while the bands run their repertoire...
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby jorge » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:21 am

RitmoBoricua, I have to admit I actually liked that Calle 13 piece with Ruben Blades too. Fortunately we don't have to use our full names on this forum so hopefully no one that knows me will find out. I feel my identity as a hard core disliker of everything reggaeton slipping away... Actually, I guess whether you like rap depends on the quality, intelligence and message of the rappers.

Que bola Abakua! Thanks for sharing your perspective from Australia and recent world travels especially to Cuba. I am "grounded" here in NYC for the next few months (work related), but hope to get out of the country within the next year too. There are timba and salsa Cubana dance classes here in NYC too, but the old skool salseros mostly don't go and can't seem to unlearn 40-50+ years of salsa dance habits to learn the Cuban styles, which are very different. Those of us who know alreeady how to dance timba do, and not many others really master it. The other major factor is the serious economic downturn for most Latino working people in the NYC area, clubs are closing. Son Cubano in NYC, which had some nice live Cuban son groups, closed down a few months ago and I heard today their NJ location is talking about closing too.

Just last night, La Esquina Habanera, the oldest and only remaining Cuban rumba club in the NYC area, closed down suddenly, lost their lease after 15 years. I was a member of the house rumba group and the club owner announced the closing in the middle of our last set while some of the drummers from Caja Dura were sitting in with us. After a moment of silence and shock, we ended with a killer guarapachangueo > columbia > conga! I have a feeling it will return in another location, bad economic conditions alone have never been enough to keep a good rumba down for long...
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby RitmoBoricua » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:50 am

I am not a big supporter of reggaeton or timba but the Calle 13 video I do like. They are
engaging the public, talking about what is going on the streets and tenements just like
what Salsa used to do back in the day. Salsa is not what used to be in NYC. It seems to me the
infrastructure that supported the music in NYC got dismantled. Is a shame because without
NYC Salsa would not be as popular worldwide as it is today. The music is doing much better
abroad no doubt. Recently Willie Colon appeared in Madrid, Spain in front of a crowd close
to 100,000 strong. The capital of Salsa for all purposes is Cali, Colombia. Even in Puerto Rico
the Salsa acts have to travel to South America and Europe to stay in business. Like they say
"It Is What It Is".
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby niallgregory » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:40 am

Really like that calle 13 song tbh . Not normally my bag but that was very musical , would that be considered Reggaton ? there is a samba reggae vibe going on in there with the repinique rolls etc .Nice tune 8)
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby pavloconga » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:56 am

ABAKUA wrote:I choose to return now to Cuba for such a lengthy stay not only because it houses all my favourite musical genres from folkloric to popular modern, but also because of its sheer reality, honesty, creativity, originality and energy, everywhere you turn music is bursting with life and has the 100% support of its people, a truly musically educated and appreciative public.
Live open air rehearsals constantly turn into all out parties with crowds dancing away and partying on while the bands run their repertoire...


Very well put and I second that – that was pretty much my experience of being in Cuba – a place full of an amazing diversity of music, energy, creativity and experimentation in all things musical.
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby RitmoBoricua » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:05 pm

niallgregory wrote:Really like that calle 13 song tbh . Not normally my bag but that was very musical , would that be considered Reggaton ? there is a samba reggae vibe going on in there with the repinique rolls etc .Nice tune 8)


One of the songs that has several elements happening you know.
The rhythms pull you in right away and don't let you go.
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby DJBakan » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:43 am

RitmoBoricua wrote:
niallgregory wrote:Really like that calle 13 song tbh . Not normally my bag but that was very musical , would that be considered Reggaton ? there is a samba reggae vibe going on in there with the repinique rolls etc .Nice tune 8)


One of the songs that has several elements happening you know.
The rhythms pull you in right away and don't let you go.

Ok, this is a topic that I think I can expand a little bit even though is not the original topic but I will get back to it in the end. But first let me tell you that I am a little younger that most of you guys so I can relate a little better to reggaeton and what young people is listening now, I am 25 years old now when I was 15 years old "wow seems like it was two years ago" I was listening and dancing reggaeton, I know, I know I just came out of the closet. It was before I started to learn real music and all that. Let me tell you that something strange is happening probably the same like it happened with Salsa in the 70's, a lot of the kids are calling all of these new urban style music Reggaeton which is crazy. Even Calle 13 had said he is not a reggaetonero and that's not his music style. He had always use Hip Hop influence with Cumbia, Raggae and Caribbeans rhythms. Even in his concerts he uses real musicians with a DJ, and he always liked to do "real music". The opposite to Rappers and Reggaeton singer that just sing over a track on a stage. There is probably a reason why he has now more awards than any other artist and in case you missed it, he won 9 Grammies last week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stDarIqU86M Calle 13 Live check this "rapper" with a whole BAND...
http://youtu.be/Fez861nAk3c Calle 13 Live at Latin Grammy 2009 with Ruben Blades
http://youtu.be/h6_8RT68KNQ Calle 13 Live at Latin Grammy 2011 with Gustavo Dudamel and his Orchestra.

So going back to the topic, my point with this is that I think this is one of the direction I believe music is heading too. Many people underrate Calle 13 just as a "rapper" I truly think he is more than that, he in many ways I believe he is similar to Ruben Blades singing about the problems in Latin America and fusion different rhythms. He just does it in a rap style. what is happening now is that many truly reggaeton singers are implementing the same, now they are using musicians in their shows. I guess the people realize when they go to these concert that a guy rapping over a beat isn't a show at all. It feels really empty the same thing that happened to me when I saw a reggaeton show live for the first time.
Other thing I wanted to talk about was the "DJ" problem. Believe me when I say this. DJs is not the problem is the people that do not have musical knowledge. Since I was a kid I loved music in general and I wanted to learn percusion and I dreamed of becoming a music producer and engineer. But in my family just saying something about becoming a musicians, Music producer, soccer player, etc. was just unacceptable. So I grew up listening a bit of everything. Around my friends I was the only one with the most knowledge in music, just because I knew about Fania All Star, Hector Lavoe and the whole crew, I knew a bit of Samba and Brazil music, same with Techno and House music, Rap and Reggaeton, etc. I was always the "DJ" in parties. But I enjoyed live music because I could understand it a bit more than my friends. Now that I study percussion and the roots of music, I have knowledge that I did not have before about Mambo music, Cuban Son, Rumba and all that I have a much better understanding and passion for live music. Almost non of my friends have that feeling just because they never were exposed to music in that way. Most of you probably grew up watching family members playing instruments or bands playing in parties, but when you do not grow up with that is totally different. That is why my friends and most people "non musicians" around today knows only what they hear in the radio or see on tv or night clubs, that is it for them. People that do not see Pedrito Martinez in tv just will never know who he is. I could go tomorrow and ask 100 latinos around where I work on my street, who is Pedrito Martinez or if they have heard his music, I can assure you 99 of them will say NO. That is why people could care less for a Band. A band will not play the Shakira, Daddy Yankee or Pitbull songs so the DJ works better for them. It is sad but that is how it is now.

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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby Derbeno » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:29 am

Excellent perspective DJBakan and well put. Thank you
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Re: New York what are you thinking ?

Postby Luis » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:59 am

DJBakan makes some good points that come from a 25 year old's perspective. I don't always agree with the notion that our young people aren't interested in music from other generations, or that they're not sofisticated enough to understand it. For many it's what they're exposed to or in this case, what they're not exposed to.

Musically, I feel obligated to the young folks around me. I, in my own way, will make sure they hear my/our music. It's their choice after that.
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