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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:38 pm
by onile
mco wrote:I was wondering why the conventional method for tuning snare drums, tom-toms, etc is to tighten the lugs using an "X" or cross pattern, while everything I've seen for tuning congas says to tighten the lugs in a circular pattern. Any ideas?

Alafia MCO!
Not the expert here, but I would imagine that a major difference in the tuning method would have something to do with the amount of pressure required with the different drums. Congas have an "aro" (inner hoop) sandwiched in the skin, then there is a "crown" which goes over it, and then the tension rods for tuning. These heads are certainly thicker than those of "trap" drums, and therefore require more 'PSI' (pounds per square inch), or pressure. If you were to do the "X" method of tuning, well this might cause the "aro" to bend with additional uneven pressure, or as you've seen with some conga players, the crown will be lower in some areas than others, pulling the "cuero" and stretching it to extreme.

I normally look at the distance from the playing surface of the drum to the top of the crown as I am tuning them. I make sure that I tighten each tension rod equally, tapping the head to hear the "tone" and if it's to my liking.

Drummers however have had warpped (sp?) heads on their drums for ages, look at Jerry Gonzales's drums. I guess it's up to the drummers own preference/discretion!

Many blessings!
Onile!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:50 pm
by ralph
onile wrote:Drummers however have had warpped (sp?) heads on their drums for ages, look at Jerry Gonzales's drums. I guess it's up to the drummers own preference/discretion!

Onile,
this is true, i have also seen pictures of Mongo where the skin is extremely uneven, this could be for a number of reasons, although it may be that some tension rods are not working properly or dmg, and you would have to overcompensate on other rods to tighten the skin. i do every other lug, and go around like that...you know i haven't thought of it, but also, the warped/uneven skin may provide more comfort if you set it up in a way where you palm wasn't hitting the rim/crown, giving you more space between the rim and the top of the drum edge....its a stretch though

Ralph

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:18 pm
by onile
Alafia Brother Ralph!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings!

I didn't consider the "comfort" level factor, I have seen some players (mostly from tropical climate areas), where the "crown is down around 2 to 3" below the playing surface! Could this be the reason? Hummmmmm! ???

Food for thought!

Many blessings!
Onile!




Edited By onile on 1132600759

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:55 pm
by mco
Onile,
Thanks for your reply. Your theory works for me.
Take Care,
mco

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:12 pm
by ralph
onile wrote:I didn't consider the "comfort" level factor, I have seen some players (mostly from tropical climate areas), where the "crown is down around 2 to 3" below the playing surface! Could this be the reason? Hummmmmm! ???

Yeah, but thats different than a lopsided tune job....sometimes the skin is mounted with alot of excess or stretched too much, or sometimes with age the skin will naturally stretch, i was referring to when the tuning is lopsided its going to leave more room for the hands on one side of the head and less on the other, maybe a logical explanation would be that the percussionist did this on purpose if he had multiple tumbadoras a al Jerry Gonzalez (because he may have more an advantage since he may not be able to tilt all 5 drum is it? so that would create an angle), or if he wanted to hit less on the rim, and opted to tune lopsided on purpose, although i doubt this, it may just be lopsided tuning in the end, which i am sure affects and distorts the pitch...

Ralph
i am well, as i hope you are in your neck of the woods....




Edited By ralph on 1132604173

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:23 am
by Isaac
I've seen first hand how Jerry handles his drums. He seldom
detunes and in between songs may only have had time to tighten one side thats closest, so there's no pre planned reason. He's very hard on his drums, and worked so much that the drums began to suffer from neglect. I know his
old congas had to be repaired quite a few times, also his new ones. I've seen him bring his congas in from his car, no cases, all banged up, and still tight from the night before. Not exactly what our teachers recommend. Jerry's playing is
great, but as a caretaker of his instrument? that's
a whole 'nother story.
Mongo also played very hard. Uneven lop-sided tuning is really not a desired goal, but a byproduct of intense playing
for long hours over many long nights and tours. I think they
were just too tired to be bothered with such details,
that the rest of think about. Their intensity is on
such a different level, that the rest of us will likely never
attain.

Some Pro players have several sets - one for abuse on the road, and other ones for the home.
~ ISAAC ~

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:59 pm
by onile
Alafia Isaac!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings my friend!

One can only imagine how difficult two and three gigs a night must be, not to mention the weather, (contrast of temperatures from outside to inside a club), humidity and various other factors like that. It's any wonder Jerry probably was too tired to worry about adjusting the crowns on his drums. Although, there may very well be some on this site with this experiece, Abakua, JC, and maybe yourself, who have had two and maybe three gigs in one evening. The most I've ever had in one day is two, and belive me the worst thing about that was the traveling, they were with two different groups altogether. I do belive, with the cost of good equipment these days, that most players, a generalization of course, make sure to get cases for them, so as to take care of them.
Great observation!

Suave!
Onile!




Edited By onile on 1132930892

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:00 pm
by JohnnyConga
Well if u see a warped rim on a conga its because one the person who owns it don't know how to "even out" the rim by proper tuning. Second just outright Lazy. 3 Don't care(as in Jerry's case)....I know Jerry and how he has always handled his drums....he is not about looks or takes the time for ."detuning"....just like any instrument care must be given to your drum, so take care of your drums, and they will take care of you!....."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D ps here are some "classic" Eco-Tone congas from the 60's....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _Tones.jpg

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:50 pm
by onile
Yo! JC!
Those are some really cool looking drums, Eco-Tone, I never heard of them! Where are they made?

I hope that you ate to your hearts content yesterday my brother!

Many blessings!
Onile!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:09 am
by JohnnyConga
Estoy Gordo Ya!.... :p those Eco-tones were made in the late 50'60's by Frank Mason as I knew him to be called. "Congas with a neck" we used to call them...the skins were always muleskin and the first set of fiberglass I had made by Frank had no neck and one of a kind set....but my first one was brown with gold sparkle with a neck....He passed and those congas are collectibles now....I'm trying to talk my friend into selling me the black and orange ones ..the others were sold to sombody in L.A...."JC" Johnny Conga..

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:58 am
by maSSivdrums
Aloha JC,

Last week on HBO they were showing the movie "SUPERFLY" which featured a music segement with Curtis Mayfield performing the title song. I just happen to notice the Conguero that was performing, was pounding on some EcoTones! If that was the same Drums in the Movie, that was used on the soundtrack, those Drums sounded Phat! From your expierience, how would you rate the sound of those Drums?
Keep on Poundin'!

Aloha, maSSivdrums :cool:

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:31 pm
by JohnnyConga
Hi ..the brother playing congas with Curtis is my friend "Master" Henry Gibson,originally from Chicago. He was playing 3 congas and bongos simultaneously, which he was very good at.. Those congas sounded great and you really had to hit them hard to get the real sound out of them,cause of the muleskins, they would turn your hands into muleskin...haha...and they really sounded good..."JC" Johnny Conga... :D

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:33 pm
by JohnnyConga
Hey MassiveDrums ..do u know my great buddy "Hector Serrano" he lives in Lahaina?.... if u could hook up with him you'll have one helluva time.. He is a stone cold "rumbero" and one of my best buddies.....let me know if your close to him..."JC" Johnny Conga... :D

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:40 am
by maSSivdrums
Aloha JC,

Sorry, your friend Hector lives on the island of Maui, which is about a 30 minute flight from here.
Funny you mentioned Master Henry Gibson. The Master used to live in Hawaii back in the 80's, and he was the "Top Conguero" in the State. He gigged with the top groups in the islands back then. He Co Produced my good friend, Kirk Thompson's album back then with Kirk's group named Lemuria. They did a Jazz Latin Funk groove that was way before its time. I had a chance to meet the Master in a night club back then, a very humble man with a warm heart. He was a true Master of music, and we lost a good one when he passed on. He's probably playing some mean chops for the MAN upstairs!
Mahalo JC for sharing.

Keep on Poundin'!

Aloha, maSSivdrums :cool:

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:08 am
by maSSivdrums
Aloha JC,

This is a pic of Master Henry Gibson performing with Lemuria.

Aloha, maSSivdrums


Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 0-scan.jpg