Accompanying solos - How to?
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by Salseroberlinense » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:58 am
How do you accompany a solo of a conga or timbale player? With bell or martillo? If bell, clave neutral half notes or normal pattern? And what do you like them to do if you take a solo? Does it depend on the style of the song part?
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by Raymond » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:27 pm
No "forced rule" here. However, congas and timbale solos are normally done in uptempo parts of the arrangement, hence, the bongo player is in the bell. That does not mean that a conga or timbale solo cannot be done in "downtempo" parts but is very but very rare. (Downtempo is that the timbale or bongo player are not in bells).
In regards to a bongo solo, although the arrangement could be in an uptempo part, for the sake of "highlighting" the bongo, the arrangement normally is changed to a mid or downtempo. This is for obvious reasons because the volume of the bongo is low in comparison to the other instruments so the timbale and conga have to "comedown" to the volume of the bongo. In this case, the timbale player tends to "lower the tempo" by playing either the "chacha" bell or cascara during the bongo solo.
During a timbale solo, the bongo player normally starts playing what is called "mambo jazz" patterns in the mouth of the bell (in other words is the cascara pattern of the timbale) or it could be playing "straight up" in the bell. The conga player tends to keep his regular tumbao or any tumbao that accomodates to the feel of the arrangement in that moment.
During a conga solo, the bongo player could do the same as during the timbale solo, or variations of it, and the timbale player plays the regular bell pattern within the clave. (That does not mean they could do variations of the patterns mentioned above within the clave).
Downtempo solos are rare for congas and timbales. Generally, the arrangement goes into a "sepia" pattern (which a rumba tumbao or feel by the conga or the bass) and is done that way. But is very very rare.
I hope this helps.
Saludos!
In regards to a bongo solo, although the arrangement could be in an uptempo part, for the sake of "highlighting" the bongo, the arrangement normally is changed to a mid or downtempo. This is for obvious reasons because the volume of the bongo is low in comparison to the other instruments so the timbale and conga have to "comedown" to the volume of the bongo. In this case, the timbale player tends to "lower the tempo" by playing either the "chacha" bell or cascara during the bongo solo.
During a timbale solo, the bongo player normally starts playing what is called "mambo jazz" patterns in the mouth of the bell (in other words is the cascara pattern of the timbale) or it could be playing "straight up" in the bell. The conga player tends to keep his regular tumbao or any tumbao that accomodates to the feel of the arrangement in that moment.
During a conga solo, the bongo player could do the same as during the timbale solo, or variations of it, and the timbale player plays the regular bell pattern within the clave. (That does not mean they could do variations of the patterns mentioned above within the clave).
Downtempo solos are rare for congas and timbales. Generally, the arrangement goes into a "sepia" pattern (which a rumba tumbao or feel by the conga or the bass) and is done that way. But is very very rare.
I hope this helps.
Saludos!
- Raymond
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by RitmoBoricua » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:15 am
Raymond,
By "down tempo" do you mean actually slowing the tempo down or bringing the volume down while maintaining the same tempo? I know for the most part volume and dynamics are brought down for most if not all solos played by any instrument while maintaining the same tempo. There are plenty of examples of bongos solos in what you would call "uptempo". For instance Roberto Roena on "Ponte Duro Bongo" or Anthony Carrillo on "Congo Yambumba". I am thinking the dynamics and volume are brought down during any solo but not necessarily the actual "tempo" of the song. Perhaps you can clarify this for me, take care.
By "down tempo" do you mean actually slowing the tempo down or bringing the volume down while maintaining the same tempo? I know for the most part volume and dynamics are brought down for most if not all solos played by any instrument while maintaining the same tempo. There are plenty of examples of bongos solos in what you would call "uptempo". For instance Roberto Roena on "Ponte Duro Bongo" or Anthony Carrillo on "Congo Yambumba". I am thinking the dynamics and volume are brought down during any solo but not necessarily the actual "tempo" of the song. Perhaps you can clarify this for me, take care.
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by akdom » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:31 am
I thought I already answered this topic but I cannot see it.. so here is my suggestion again.
While soloing, a musician needs room. In other words, the rest of the band needs to slightly lower the volume and reduce variations.
Listen to some recordings, during the 'montuno', the whole band keeps the same pattern in loop and the soloist has much more room to improvise and 'use' the played pattern to create melodies and rythmic variations.
Listen to some jazz recordings too, the same thing happens.
It also prevents the band from playing louder and louder and it is also nicer for those who listen to the band.
One last thing, some solos can be tricky, so the best, until you cans actually listen to the solos and play steadily at the same time, is not to focus on the solo, but on the rest of the band... When a soloist plays 6 on 4 for example, some unexperimented musicians can tend to be 'swallowed' by the soloist and loose track. all of a sudden, the clave goes wrong or the marcha gets wrong and the whole song collapses.
B
While soloing, a musician needs room. In other words, the rest of the band needs to slightly lower the volume and reduce variations.
Listen to some recordings, during the 'montuno', the whole band keeps the same pattern in loop and the soloist has much more room to improvise and 'use' the played pattern to create melodies and rythmic variations.
Listen to some jazz recordings too, the same thing happens.
It also prevents the band from playing louder and louder and it is also nicer for those who listen to the band.
One last thing, some solos can be tricky, so the best, until you cans actually listen to the solos and play steadily at the same time, is not to focus on the solo, but on the rest of the band... When a soloist plays 6 on 4 for example, some unexperimented musicians can tend to be 'swallowed' by the soloist and loose track. all of a sudden, the clave goes wrong or the marcha gets wrong and the whole song collapses.
B
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by Raymond » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:19 pm
I know uptempo and downtempo is sort of a feel. Uptempo parts of an arrangement, generally, have the timbale player and/or the bongo player in the bells and the conga player in a more than one conga tumbao. (In the arrangement of a salsa/mambo song is the chorus, mambo or mona part. On the same token, there are songs that are uptempo all the way. Example: Fuego a la Jicotea by Marvin Santiago is one that comes to mind). That is what I mean with an uptempo part. Downtempo is timbale is in cascara, bongo in "martillo" and conga is in regular one conga tumbao.
Sorry if I am using the terms incorrectly but I think most of you guys know what I mean.
The songs you mentioned with solos are sort of "exceptions" to the main rule. Ponte Duro Bongo, the feel is of the song is uptempo but notice the timbale player is in cascara. (The solo is given in the intro of the song and is part of the chorus, etc, etc.). "Congo Yambumba" the feel is kept for the solo, however, there is a change in the way the timbale player plays. The timbale player is playing some kind of pattern in the timbale bell but is not full pattern.
Examples of bongo solos when all of the sudden they go downtempo are Adoracion by Eddie Palmieri, "Changuiri" by PR All-Stars, "Hasta que Se Rompa El Cuero", Sonora Poncena, Ahora Me Toca Mi" by Victor Manuelle, etc, etc. (There are thousands of solos like that).
Again, like I said before there is no mandatory pattern but the rule is to give each instrument that is soloing the attention in the arrangement and whatever it takes is normally done by the arranger, either by bringing the swing of the rest of the percussion or bringing it up. Nevertheless, some rules are the custom to do.
Saludos!
Sorry if I am using the terms incorrectly but I think most of you guys know what I mean.
The songs you mentioned with solos are sort of "exceptions" to the main rule. Ponte Duro Bongo, the feel is of the song is uptempo but notice the timbale player is in cascara. (The solo is given in the intro of the song and is part of the chorus, etc, etc.). "Congo Yambumba" the feel is kept for the solo, however, there is a change in the way the timbale player plays. The timbale player is playing some kind of pattern in the timbale bell but is not full pattern.
Examples of bongo solos when all of the sudden they go downtempo are Adoracion by Eddie Palmieri, "Changuiri" by PR All-Stars, "Hasta que Se Rompa El Cuero", Sonora Poncena, Ahora Me Toca Mi" by Victor Manuelle, etc, etc. (There are thousands of solos like that).
Again, like I said before there is no mandatory pattern but the rule is to give each instrument that is soloing the attention in the arrangement and whatever it takes is normally done by the arranger, either by bringing the swing of the rest of the percussion or bringing it up. Nevertheless, some rules are the custom to do.
Saludos!
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