Finger rolls

[burke]

Looking at another post and the video within it it reminded me of a question.

What do folks think of the place of finger rolls in Bongo playing? They are certainly important in Indian and Middle Eastern drumming.

Long ago and far away I took some tabula lessons and learned to do a passable finger roll, but it never seemed to have have enough power to make much impression as a bongo ornimentation.

Anybody else use them as a regular part of their toolbox?

Darrell

[umannyt]

Burke,

I think finger rolls has a very legitimate place in bongo playing. I strongly believe that, as genuine artists, we should be always be open and free to explore and experiment with new sounds. IMO, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be imprisoned by the current tradition.

Tradition isn't static and stagnant, it's organic and dynamic subject to evolution and development. What we see as tradition nowadays is the accumulation of all the centuries of experimentation and pioneering techniques done by our percussionist ancestors and that eventually have become accepted as mainstream. Nevertheless, I'm sure that there were experimentations that were rejected along the way.

But, the thought of being rejected absolutely shouldn't stop us from going ahead and exploring new playing techniques anyway. The reality is that new and novel techniques inevitably involve trial and error. Who knows? One of us may just become the pioneer of a technique that eventually will become universally accepted as part of the tradition to come?

Heck, I'd try playing the side of bongo like a cascara, if I have to. Again, the bottom line is the sound and the groove.

In this regards, I can't help but offer this analogy: The difference between a drummer and a percussionist is this--Give a drummer who smokes cigarette an ashtray and he'll use it to put his ashes in it. But, give a percussionist who smokes the same astray and he'll play with it.

I've seen one of my drummer/percussionist idols, Alex Acuna, do finger rolls (actually he used his nails) on congas (in his "Alex Acuna Live At PAS" video), so I don't see why one can't use finger rolls on bongos. I certainly do.

As far as finger rolls not having enough power is concerned, consider the softness part of pleasant dynamics which certainly has its place sometimes in a musical piece or song. And, if you mic your bongos when you play, like I do (with my loud blues/rock band), then not having enough power becomes a mute point.



Edited By umannyt on 1197585407

[burke]

Hey Manny (welcome back BTW)

Good stuff - I'm wondering if more volume could be acheived - certainly tabula players are fairly loud ie: is it the nature of the drum or practice & technique.

[Whopbamboom]

I use rolls on bongos and other hand drums. Not sure if I use the same techniques as those tabla players, though. I'm betting there's quite a few different ways do do rolls. In fact, there has to be-- I myself have about 3 or possibly 4 different rapid-note techniques that I do with my fingers and thumbs.

[umannyt]

Hey Manny (welcome back BTW)

Good stuff - I'm wondering if more volume could be acheived - certainly tabula players are fairly loud ie: is it the nature of the drum or practice & technique.

Burke,

Thanks for the kind words and the warm welcome back!

I know "tabla" and I just luv it's sound! Funny, but I first heard the sound of the "tabla" (as well as the "sitar") from the "Beatles" during their Maharishi Mayesh Yogi/Transcendental Meditation phase of "looking-for-true-happiness-inspite-of-their-phenomenal-worldwide-celebrity-and-sudden-wea
lth-status" via the Eastern tradition. I've also heard and actually seen it played on "Led Zeppelin's" video of their live performance of their seemingly endless song, "Kashmir", on VH1 and on the "Concert For George (Harrison)" DVD.

Visually, it's quite easy to tell why a "table" would inherently sound loud 'cause of it's bigger sound chamber as compared to those of bongos. However, unlike you, I have no 1st-hand experience comparing the sound volume of the 2. So, frankly, I feel that I'm unable to give you a fair answer re: your question.

Regardless, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that technique is definitely a factor. And just as guitarists (like myself) have finger-strengthening exercises, I'm sure that having stronger finger muscles would help in creating more volume for you when you do finger rolls on bongos.

I also don't see the volume/power problem as much with the "macho" side (due to it's much tigher tuning) than it is with the "hembra" side (due to it's much looser tuning).

I hope that I've made some sense here.



Edited By umannyt on 1197627216

[burke]

As a side note - one of the coolest things I ever heard was "Ravi Shankar: Concerto for Sitar & Orchestra" with the London Sympony. Instead of tabla he used bongos!

[No.2-1820]

Bongo's are used in middle eastern music quite frequently, they play them up on end, low drum at the bottom, macho up top. Isaac has posted some cool links to this on the bongo group in the past.

[burke]

Now that is interesting! I recently sold an old set to a frirnd. H ewas having trouble holding them in the traditional style and asked if people ever played them like this (exectly the way you described No.2-1820).

I said not that I was aware of - well the more fool me!

Any u-tube examples that you know of - would love to see that.

ps. do you by chance have a name? No.2-1820 seems just a tad impersonal :;):