Open tone with bongoes - "el martillo"

[dvon]

Hi all... I was recently talking with a friend of mine about the open tone when playing bongos... I said that the open tone in the "martillo" (I´m not sure if I´m using the correct terminology, so I´m talking of the second stroke done with the strong hand) is completely open, but he argued that it really is "half" open... the other hand is really muffling the stroke... I was looking at the BongoBook and it seems that I´m right: can anyone comment?

Thanks! Good luck!

[Raymond]

Hopefully, I understand what you are saying. The strokes in the martillo to the macho are muffled by the "weak hand" while the strong hand is actually hitting with the index, or the close by, fingers.

I've noticed there are various "methods" or styles out there. There is the traditional way in which the muffling occurs more obvious and lately, there are a lot of bongoseros who are playing with less muffling.

With less muffling you get a sound that is more continous. Personally, I moved from the traditional style to the more modern way of playing the martillo. (In this way, the "weak" hand is doing some sort of muffling but actually is doing movements like you will do in the conga and results in a continous sound of "eighth notes" and you do not get the sound of like you have some silences in the martillo. I do not know if you have noticed that with the traditional martillo, althouh there is a "muffled" note there it sounds like you start with a quarter note, the next one is a eighth note follow by another quarter note... The sound is like dragging).

Actualy, I accomodate my martillo to what I am playing and what other percussion instruments are with me...... That way I accompany better. People do not notice that if they are not very proficient in the traditional martillo, the sound will be like "lacking" punch or rhythm...You have to be very good at it....Why I call a modern martillo will give "strength" to the rhythm section since you are filling with more notes....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1093004654

[dvon]

Raymond, thanks a lot. I have to agree with you: my martillo still needs a lot of work...
Thanks again!

[akdom]

Hi guys

I agree too, what you call the modern martillo is the most common now. And it gives much more punch. The martillo is "marking" the rhythm at double tempo, giving this pulse to the whole ensemble, so if you play the "muffled" version, you won't have as much of a pulse, but it depends on what you are palying and what feeling you want to create.
I personally feel much more comfortable playing congas when the martillo is not "muffled".

See ya

Big B

[yalla]

Well, in my opinion what described here in the Bongobook IS the correct Martillo technique. I consider other ways of playing as some sort of variations.
With the correct technique, you get alternated muffled and open sound with the strong hand, which gives balance, swing to the rhythm.
Personally, I think the "all open" martillo is quite boring. ???

[JohnnyConga]

Hey guys what your calling "new" martillo is not new trust me. What may be old is now new again. Check out the playing of Roberto Roena or Tony Fuentes(my favorite bngosero), very modern and open approach to the martillos. Teony was the bongo player on a lot of Ray Barretto's stuff back in the 70's, and ws the "unknown" bongo player on the Joe Cuba recordings of the 60's and early 7o'.s You guys might want to start listening to the "older" music of Salsa and Mambo Jazz. The new stuff today is okay but it's lacking in "finesse" and everybody wants to be able to play 100 miles an hour....It's easy to play fast, hard to play slow....I got like over 20 Cd's in the past 2 weeks for my new radio show and there all starting to sound the same to me, nothing new or different. somehow there trying to get that ugh, Poncho Sanchez studio sound, very dry and "NO FIRE"....like just going thru the motions.....I HAVE HEARD IT ALL! and I'm not particularly impressed with what I'm hearing.....my 2 congas....JC JOHNNY CONGA.... :;):

[Raymond]

JC you have a good point. However, like I mentioned the "traditional martillo" is not dominated by a lot people. The traditional martillo is more suitable when the bongo player does a lot of improvisation like the old traditional salsa songs did. It takes a good player to do it You have guys like Pablito Rosario, of Harlow and Johnny Pacheco, and Jose Mangual Jr., of Willie Colon, who are a good examples for me. They did not do the martillo a lot and they had limited but precised improvisation every four to eight bars without overdoing it. Rohena is perhaps the best example regarding salsa too. He ocassionally plays with both styles. Johnny "Dandy" Rodriguez of Barreto, Tipica 73 and Tito Puente, is a good one in combining both styles. (In my opinion...there might be others)....

Guys like the current guys recording in salsa like Alberto Machuca, Rey Colon, Celso Clemente Junior have either a modified traditional or a modern approach. (I am aware Albert Machuca has follow sometimes a Roena approach in some recordings by going traditional, with low tuning, emulating Roena from the old times in some Tito Rojas recordings). Since some of the current salsa is done in a studio without having a feeling of the lyrics or horn section of the song they do with a continious martillo that is not traditional in the way I explained.

Is very interesting the styles of some bongoseros......

In regards to Yalla's comments, is not all open..if you go all open is going to be all "cacophonic" because it all sounds a like and is just takatakataka...what I call the modern is still muffled but you get the sound of the continous eighth notes. The "silence feel" you get with traditiona, because is all muffled, in what I called the modern martillo ocurrs you might say "semi-muffled" like the sound of the left hand in the conga.....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1093025422

[JohnnyConga]

Let's not forget Anthony Carrillo, a "modern" bongo player....JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[franc]

J.C saludos from p.r. . hope all is great!! tell me where or on what recording can i find ''tony fuentes'' playing??? thanks and áche to you and all the forum!!!~ your friend, franc:cool: