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Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:32 pm**

Hi
I wonder ... what do you play on the bongo in Guaguanco , when there is a conga player ?
Are there any specific patterns , or do you play the Martilo ?
Traditionally , is the Bongo used in Guaguanco and in other Rumba styles ?

Thanks a lot

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:42 pm**

soungalo wrote:Hi
I wonder ... what do you play on the bongo in Guaguanco , when there is a conga player ?
Are there any specific patterns , or do you play the Martilo ?
Traditionally , is the Bongo used in Guaguanco and in other Rumba styles ?

Thanks a lot

you can play whatever you see fit, martillo etc...usually when the tumbador is playing the usual guaguanco habanero/matancero, than the bongo would act like a quinto and do the riffing and so forth...as far as whether using the bongo in rumba is traditional? i would say no...although of course some groups may have, or do use a bongo in their set up....there is even a recording called "Buenavista en Guaguanco" by Ecue Tumba, where they use a bongo as a quinto...i first heard it and thought is was a cajoncito but go figure...who's going to argue with Farinas and crew....

Ralph

Edited By ralph on 1131057768

Posted: **Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:54 pm**

What do you play in bongos in guaguanco? The same martillo and the same improvisation beats. However, how are you going to go about the improv hits depends if what you have is a "tumbao" (Tumbao is known a percussion set without a timbale, aka, Pacheco, Conjunto Clasico, etc). When you are playing bongo in a tumbao you have to be more traditional and conservative in your play since you have to be more with the foundation of the rhythm section. When you have a timbalero the timbalero maintains and fills the "machaca" (machaca is the pattern to be kept in the downtempo part of the song) with its cascareo. (Cascareo is hitting the shells).

For your information, my understanding is that Cuban original groups that played "son" based rhythms such as guaguanco, son montuno, regular son, guaracha, etc, did not have a conga and were tres, guitar, maracas/guiro/clave and bongos. The congas supposedly got incorporated later in the 20th century in the big hands. (I've heard Machito and/or Cachao had something to do with it or even Arsenio...not sure). But in summary, the bongo is "natural" percussion instrument in the "guaguanco" or Cuban "son" based rhythms. Even the cowbells got incorporated later.

How do you play martillo? That's another story...(Hopefully, you know how to).

Saludos!

Posted: **Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:44 pm**

Welcome Raymond to this debate in relation to the percussion in Cuba's music,In reality the congas was incorporated in Cuba since mid 1800's for the festivities of 'El dia de reyes' which is the grandfather of the Carnivals,also some musicians were trying to incorporate it in the Orchestras,but the middle and hight class establishment in Cuba were opposed to it considering it, too african,(to black),to represent the cuban music,(a historical mistake).At one point during the goverment of Gerardo Machado,(1930's),all type of drumming was prohibited,(even in private practice),the Timbales was ok,becouse it was comming from european ancestry.It took a national riot, the closing of schools,etc., to kick Machado,out of the government,and after that the percussion was back in to the cuban music,and everything was continued.(I wasn't going to said this but, there is a detail that not even people in Cuba knows about it).In one of the Yorubas festivities they were playing with Gourd and Chekeres, (according to my ancestors), when some Orichas showed it in the middle of it, they asked why there were not drums,the people there told that it was prohibitted and said who was responsible for the prohibition and the Orichas said, that the drums were going to come back,,,,and they did to come back. Dr.Zaragemca

Edited By zaragemca on 1138120019

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 pm**

I've been busy with my 8 track trying to put down a simple guaguanco with bongo improvisations.. It's very difficult as I'm still a beginner to avoid to much flamming and general over - cooking...??

The take I was most pleased with was when I used the Bongo very sparingly with almost no full martillo bars.. When I added a simple shaker it resulted in an almost jazzy feel..

Anyway it was a interesting lesson in the interaction of the Congas & Bongo..And how one drum can teach you a lot about the other...

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:26 pm**

Raymond: "…."son" based rhythms such as guaguanco, son montuno, regular son, guaracha, etc,"

Me:
Raymond, guaguanco is not son-based. It is part of an entirely different family of rhythms called rumba. However, guaguanco has been adapted into salsa and other son-based genres since Arsenio Rodriguez’s "Anabacoa".

Charangaman, when you adapt a folkloric rhythm into a popular music format, you have lots of leeway. There’s no set way to do it. Typically though, the bongos do not play martillo in a band adaptation of guaguanco. It’s more likely that the bongos play an adaptation of the quinto part since the congas are playing an adaptation of the tumba and segundo parts from guaguanco. In order to do this, you must first learn the quinto part. Find recordings of folkloric guaguanco and band adaptations of guaguanco. Here’s a bare-bones template for the quinto part. It’s essentially a displaced "tresillo" figure beginning on the first off-beat after beat one.

||XooX|oooX|ooXo|Xooo|| rumba clave
||oXoo|XooX|oooo|oooo|| a bare-bones template for the quinto part

-David

Edited By davidpenalosa on 1138141813

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:25 am**

AS FAR AS I KNOW ARSENIO RODRIGUEZ WAS THE ONE TO ADD THE TUMBADORA, THE PIANO, AND A SECOND TRUMPET INTO THE TRADITIONAL SON. HE ALSO RECORDED BUENAVISTA EN GUAGUANCO.

Edited By SkinDeep on 1138152378

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:37 am**

all true

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:03 am**

Many thanks David, this notation will be very useful in my continuing experiments..

I had been inspired to try and emulate the sound of a "nu yorican" style band - Rey Roig y Su sensacion whose late 70's recordings I find extremely potent.. On some tracks they are moving from Guaguanco to Son Montuno, which though irregular in a traditional sense - is definatley an exiting brew..

Cheers for the knowledge!

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:20 am**

Re; Anabacoa..

What an amazing song, I personally own at least four versions, from the original to the more recent Sierra Maestra version.. My favourite though has to be El Benny's..

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:16 pm**

I LOVE BENY MORE BUT THE ONE IN THE ALBUM CONCEPTS IN UNITY IS MY FAVORITE.

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