Rolls?And other questions - Help on some things

[Luiz Guilherme Brant]

Hi all,
I'm very new here,and I've had my bongo for like 5 months,now I'm trying to play it right.It's my first percussion instrument(mine is hunter by the way,it's very cheap,and I think I can learn something with that).I'm learning by my own,just on the listening,and now I found some nice websites like this forum.
Ok there we go.
First I'm from Brasil,so many of the terms i don't know very well like "rolls" what is it?
About tunin and de-tunin bongos,whats the right way on doing it?
Skins?Can you tell me more about it?Wich are the good skins,wich are not,where to buy,how to install it,and the diferences between their sounds.
What makes diference on the sound of the bongos,I mean,what makes a bongo cost like $50 to like $300?
Well,that's it,I hope you guys can hlep me to be a nice bongocero,and if you want please get me on MSN(guilhermebrant@terra.com.br) so we can talk about bongo and music in general.
Thank you and sorry about the BIG post.
Peace.

[Bataboom]

Hi sense your new and im the only one up and around at this our I will say welcome to the place to be!

Im fairly new to Latin Jazz and to percussion I played hand drums for about a year now and I learn quite a bit here at this forum. Im sure more educated peepz here can answer your questions better but I'll see how well I do on a few.

1.) A roll or rolls is the act of making just that a rolling effect with your drum just like a set drummer rolls from the snare over to the tom toms and the floor tom in a steady flowing pattern. Ever heard the term "drum roll", well thats a drum roll.

2.) Tuning from what I gather here is on bongos you loosen the lugs to detune in a "X" or cross patter because of thier smaller size, and same to tune in a cross pattern from one side to the other. Spacific tunings someone else will have to help you there, to give you accurate tunings.

3.) The difference in any hand drum wether a bongo or conga or djembe etc. is not only the price but the more it goes up the better the quality material and craftmanship thats put into the drums, most of the time this is fact. Usually beginner models are cheaper because less time spent on the quality of producing it, and oposite for better quality more expensive drums. But there are exceptions like a case I read hear the other day someone bought a set of LP congas and when they got them the boxes were all tore up the packaging was very light and had a little damage to the drum. He paid good extra money for what he thought was gonna be top notch qulity and service and it lacked a little because of mass perduction, they get so busy making tons of equipment they start skimping on things so you have to do your homework and research against your budget ad see whats best for your playing situations.

There sounded a little like I know something I learned a little from these fellas, and a little of my own short but fast experiences. Again welcome aboard Im sure someone else will come along and fill in the gaps I left

[Charangaman]

Happy new year & welcome to this great forum!

The Bongo is a wonderful drum and I'm sure you will find it very rewarding..

Bongo rolls are exhilarating when yu build up speed, just practice them slowly at first.. RLRLRLRL.. RRLLRRLLRRLL..RLRRLRLL..RLR LRL RLR etc.. Do them on the macho, the hembra and then combinations, add accents etc..

When tuning the most important thing to do is apply even tension across the four lugs on each head.. I always loosen the macho completley after playing..

What really makes the difference in the sound of the bongo is (IMO) - YOU & your technique.. However you will reach a stage when only a decent drum can raise your sound to a higher level...

There are many brothers on the forum who are more expert than me, regarding Bongo, Raymond & Caballoballo have helped me a great deal and regarding skins I think Issac is the man to speak with..

Hit the Bongo!



Edited By Charangaman on 1136288740

[caballoballo]

Brothers,happy New Year to all (may be late but better now than never) Vaya Luiz,welcome to the forum. The Bongó is an instrument to improvise with,the more you pratice an dedicate time to him the better you will become. Practice will make you flow to the pattern. Learn the MARTILLO which is the basic pattern from where you go in and out to your improvisations. Listen to cds and play along them,that will expose you to differents tempo,believe me,the slower the tempo the harder to improvise so look for some Son Montunos/Guajiras and start learning how to accomodate your patterns into the rythm and the most important thing,listen to the Clave. One thing that already been cover but is very important is to buy a quality instrument from start so you will not waste money on an instrument where sound is compromise. Living in Brasil and close To Colombia you can get a well built custom made Bongó made by El Piernas in Cali. Wood is better than fiberglass and with the proper thickness of the wood you will get the sound of an hembra of 9" with one which is 8.5". I learned that by trial and error.



Edited By caballoballo on 1136824744

[Raymond]

Most of it have been said but here are my five cents"

First, master the martillo or basic "afro-cuban" rhythm pattern. (It could accompany almost anything) (Decide also what genre you want to pursue....If afro-cuban music or salsa or related music....listen to records...Once you master the martillo then you will go with improvisatios while playing...As mentioned here...in afro-cuban music bongo is an improvisational instrument...)

Hopefully you know your clave that is the base for all this.....

The rolls is a "technical term"...Every drummer is supposed to master the basics of rudiments and techniques related to it just like a trap drummer will do. However, some people, specially a lot of bongo players and conga players, tend to overlook it and go straight to the techniques of how to play those instruments because some of the technical stuff is not needed to begin and in most regular playing....It makes you a better drummer to go "technical"...Eventually, you will see your limitations and is related to that....Here depends how "deep" you want to go...

Heads, bongos, etc....Some have been said here regarding these subject......We could make recommendations and tell you a lot...(There are lots of posts here about that..Check them out...But is trial and error and depends what sound you want to have.......Listening to recordings and trying to copy the sound of some bongo players you start admiring will help you out!

Tell us how it goes.....Saludos!

[arpa]

Cheers!

I agree with all above... and it is hard to disagree since I have practised Bongo only one year I have questioned too many beginner questions here... but it has improved my playing a lot so I will keep asking until they throw me away...

My first bongo was LP Aspire and second was Timba... it was such a leap in quality (and in price also)... but I think it was a good deal since I have practiced much more and without so much excuses after I got good quality Bongo...

I see that you have already been answered by Raymond and he gave to me a hint to improve my lateral movement by recommending George Stone's "Stick Control"... I say this because you will probably find it out also that your weak hand prevents good rolls.

About martillo... well, I know it's a drink, but it seems to be much more... In the 'Bongo drumming: Beyond the basics' book there are hundreds of martillo excercises... but regarding this thread I have a beginner question also...

They say that you should respect clave when playing martillo... but you also want to accent some notes (according to martillo variations)... so it means that in martillo there is grace-accented notes, clave-accented notes, and accent-accent notes... does that mean that 3 different accents are enough... and do I practice those accents for all tones..?

Thank you, and pardon me

[neftali.rosado]

Hi,

Im new to the board and I Have been practicing Percussion for a little over five years with some family members. I have finally been given the opportunity to play with my uncles local band, i have done a total of about nine gigs some worst then others. Not to long ago we opened for a band with an experienced BONGOCERO i got nurves and did not do as good as i know i am capable of. I have been told I have a realy good feal for the music and would practice all day every day if i could.

I have alot of questions just to ask a couple of them. Is there any recommendation to get over the jitters of playing in front of experienced mucisians? I would also like to know any and all techniques i should probably practice for SALSA on both BONGO & CAMPANA.

-All Feed back and suggestions welcomed-

Thanks,
Neftali Rosado

[Raymond]

Neftali,

The "jitters" you are getting to play in front of people you believe is more knowledgeable than you is normal. The only way to get rid of them or control them is to relax and be yourself. (Breath, Breath...forget others are watching...do your thing as normal as you could do it).

Of course, confidence is the big one here. (If you feel you have it there is no need to feel the "jitters"). Therefore, to work in your confidence, you need to work in your "chops".

Believe me, I started back in music like you....getting a chance to play a "simple" instrument but that I needed to work on it....the bongos....Practice, Practice, Practice....Listening to records help you...Start imitating what those bongoseros are playing....Is going to be awhile but you will get your own style and you will feel confident about it.

Technically...is all over the place here...Is good to do rudiments and practice exercises of independence to help you get your hand skills up to par....

Is hard to get everything in a post...but my recommendation is to get serious and start doing catch up and eventually you will "feel you master the instrument." (Mastering is relative...you never master anything...)

Saludos!

[Isaac]

Welcome to the new Bongoceros.
There's also the bongoGroup on Yahoo groups with
many threads and members to help you.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBongoGroup/

Some of us
belong to both congaplace and the Yahoo bongo group.
We also post some mp3s of good bongo playing
quite often, so you can hear the masters.

~ ISAAC ~
funkytradition@yahoo.com

[Luiz Guilherme Brant]

Oh,I see a lot of people replied my topic,I'd like to thank you all for the tips and suggestions,I do really apreciate it.
I'm trying to practice and improve my bongo playing but,I don't have much reference to listen and practice,and also I didn't understand some terms you guys said,like "clave",still not understanding "rolls",etc.So can you guys can recommend me some nice music I can listen and practice(especially reggae and ska),any free videos about bongo,exercises and etc?
If you could send me any material,please do it on the email guilhermebrant@terra.com.br ,or by the msn messenger,the same email I wrote before.
Anyway,thank you very much guys,I'll keep practicing a lot and coming back to the forum.
"Falous"

[Bataboom]

check out http://www.congahead.com/Movies/menu_list.html look for some of the clips for bongos or just preview them all im sure you will find something to help you on your way. Clave is an instrument 2 sticks struck together they make a clucking sound and the the timing of the song usually runs along to the pattern of the clave. A roll was explained many times here in detail thats you striking the drum one hand after the other in a fast pattern which is called a "drum roll" [ left right left right left right left right real fast would be a roll ] hope this helps a little more.

[Luiz Guilherme Brant]

Oh,thank you a lot bataboom,now I understand what rolls means....and thank you for the site sugestion,I'll check it out later.
Cya

[caballoballo]

Bongoceros,Saludos

Everything here has been said.All inputs are great. Neftaly I agreed 100% with Raymond,try to record the tunes you play with your Band and then play them and practice over and over. That way when you get to the stage don't matter who is watching ,you will perform in accordance with the tunes you have been practicing. Last Fryday when we were playing at the Club, somebody was watching me and the rest of the percussion players,he told me was a percussionist and have various instruments but I did not care who he was or play with,I have a job to do and since I did my homework,I was ready. With time and a lot of practice you will develop your own style as Raymond said. I work as a Dj in a Club Fryday nights if I am not playing with my Guerrilla so I see many Bongoceros which I watch playing not to critique but to see their technique,copy what I like and learn,no one play the same way,everyone has his own style and that is what add to the band the flavor,in this case your own. Just relax,drink some good RED WINE to flavor your Soul and hit the stage with confidence. Raymond,I saw you the other day playing with Prodigio Claudio on channel Six .That guy really knows how to pay that 4.



Edited By caballoballo on 1137499221

[Raymond]

Caballoballo,

What club do you DJ on Fridays? You mentioned Palo 11? Is that the club? I was there once on a Friday when Son de Madre was playing? Are you using your Pearl bongos?

Saw me on TV? I've done so many TV shows but I did only two during the last month. Still people claim they see me all the time. I have a feeling they are repeating a lot of old programs. I played with Prodigio this Christmas but he had another group also. Are you sure it was me?

Going to NAMM this weekend with Pearl....I'll let you guys know what happens....Saludos!

[caballoballo]

Hey Raymond Whats Cooking,

Yes I Dj at Palo 11 on Fridays nights. This Fryday I be there. About channel six and In accordance with your photo,yes was you,yes I think they do repeat the programs.

About the Pearl Elite,I use it sometimes, I still not too please with the Fiberglass sound eventhough I try changing the Hembra head to a thick natural skin looking for a better sound but I could not,now is back to fiberskyn on both shells. Most of the time I am using the Moperc Salsa Bongó. This Moperc really have a strong crisp sound on the Macho and deep sound on the Hembra,I got a mix of heads,Fiber on the Macho and a really thick natural skin on the hembra and that really have work for me soundwise. . It is kind of heavy, (11.5 pounds) made of ash wood and almost 3/4 inch thick,very well built.
Last time we played at palo 11 I recorded the gig and yes you were right about the Lp Sergio George Campana. The sound of the Sergio got lost in the mix but the JCR Campana sound was a heavy punch on the song I played with which were most of them. I got home and took the sergio out of the Bongó bag and replaced with another JCR I have. Drop By the Club this Friday if you can,at this time I don't know who is going to play but they always have a good Band.



Edited By caballoballo on 1137584303