Bongo leg - shaky leg syndrome
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by Charangaman » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:38 am
Greetings,
At a gig playing bongo seated for 30 minutes my leg stared shaking involuntarily - I could not control it! I had to just hit hembra notes and grab the crazy limb...
Usually I'll move the crown and lugs round to fit it comfortably in my legs but I hadn't time.. Also I was perched on top of a cajon which wasn't really ideal height..
Anyone else experience this horrible bongo affliction, or have I got a serious problem?
Edited By Charangaman on 1186479605
At a gig playing bongo seated for 30 minutes my leg stared shaking involuntarily - I could not control it! I had to just hit hembra notes and grab the crazy limb...
Usually I'll move the crown and lugs round to fit it comfortably in my legs but I hadn't time.. Also I was perched on top of a cajon which wasn't really ideal height..
Anyone else experience this horrible bongo affliction, or have I got a serious problem?
Edited By Charangaman on 1186479605
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Charangaman - Posts: 312
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by yambu321 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:42 am
CHARANGAMAN,
YES, I ALSO HAD EXPERIENCED THAT AS WELL, AT VARIOUS TIMES, FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS. IT DEPENDED ON HOW LONG AND HOW VIGOROUS I HAD TO PLAY. THE BONGOS YOU USE, ARE ALSO A BIG FACTOR. HEAVY IN WEIGHT, AND HARDWARE DIGGING INTO YOUR LEGS IS NOT COOL. THAT'S WHAT I DEALT WITH, WITH LP BONGOS. THE MOST AWESOME SOUNDING, AND MOST COMFORTABLE BONGOS THAT I HAVE EVER PLAYED, AND OWN ARE THE NEW GON BOPS "CALIFORNIA SERIES" BONGOS.
GET A PEEK AT THEM FROM LOOKING AT MY PROFILE AT THE MYCONGAPLACE ROSTER, AND CLICK ON
"EL COQUI". SCROLL DOWN TILL YOU SEE THE PHOTOS, THEN CLICK ON THE PHOTOS.
REMEMBER THIS,
LEG DEVELOPMENT, PROPER POSTURE, GREAT BONGOS, AND LOTS OF PRACTICE, WILL GET YOU THERE.
RESPECTFULLY,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO
Edited By yambu321 on 1186483799
YES, I ALSO HAD EXPERIENCED THAT AS WELL, AT VARIOUS TIMES, FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS. IT DEPENDED ON HOW LONG AND HOW VIGOROUS I HAD TO PLAY. THE BONGOS YOU USE, ARE ALSO A BIG FACTOR. HEAVY IN WEIGHT, AND HARDWARE DIGGING INTO YOUR LEGS IS NOT COOL. THAT'S WHAT I DEALT WITH, WITH LP BONGOS. THE MOST AWESOME SOUNDING, AND MOST COMFORTABLE BONGOS THAT I HAVE EVER PLAYED, AND OWN ARE THE NEW GON BOPS "CALIFORNIA SERIES" BONGOS.
GET A PEEK AT THEM FROM LOOKING AT MY PROFILE AT THE MYCONGAPLACE ROSTER, AND CLICK ON
"EL COQUI". SCROLL DOWN TILL YOU SEE THE PHOTOS, THEN CLICK ON THE PHOTOS.
REMEMBER THIS,
LEG DEVELOPMENT, PROPER POSTURE, GREAT BONGOS, AND LOTS OF PRACTICE, WILL GET YOU THERE.
RESPECTFULLY,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO
Edited By yambu321 on 1186483799
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by Garvin » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:34 pm
I find if my foot is not flat on the ground, I start to shake. You said you were sitting on a cajon? Maybe a little higher than you are use to. Probably you were up on the ball of your foot I'm guessing. That's when it happens to me... I got a pair of those gon-bop bongo pads that really helped me too. I have heavy bongos and need all the comfort I can get. The other thing I would reccommend if you haven't already done it is reposition the hardware so your leg fits comfortably in between the lugs.
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by Charangaman » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Many thanks guys - I'm not a freak afterall..
Yes my feet were not grounded, the cajon was too high.
It's not a good look in the middle of a tune when the bongosero looks like he's having somekind of demonic episode...It was more pronounced when executing complex variations, literally my whole mid section began to vibrate... Weird and scary... I will take measures to prevent this in future...
The Gon bops are impossible to get in the uk... : - ( Much to my dismay..
Yes my feet were not grounded, the cajon was too high.
It's not a good look in the middle of a tune when the bongosero looks like he's having somekind of demonic episode...It was more pronounced when executing complex variations, literally my whole mid section began to vibrate... Weird and scary... I will take measures to prevent this in future...
The Gon bops are impossible to get in the uk... : - ( Much to my dismay..
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Charangaman - Posts: 312
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by caballoballo » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:43 pm
Bongoceros,seat height has to do with that. You need to seat comfortable and let the Bongó rest between your legs, not to hold them tight, just let them seat there.
Josean
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caballoballo - Posts: 1043
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by bongosnotbombs » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:30 pm
I think you need to get a drum throne, then set the thing to your height, when its time to play the bongos put them on the floors and switch to the cajon..
I have 2 thrones, one for bongos and one for congas, bongo one is low conga one is high.
Either that or get a bongos stand, there are lots of kinds, even ones that will tilt the bongo with the macho a little higher like it is when you hold them with your legs....
I have 2 thrones, one for bongos and one for congas, bongo one is low conga one is high.
Either that or get a bongos stand, there are lots of kinds, even ones that will tilt the bongo with the macho a little higher like it is when you hold them with your legs....
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by Whopbamboom » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:49 pm
If you play both cajon and bongos in the same sitting, I think I'd make or get something to rest my feet flat on. Block of wood, whatever.
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by Whopbamboom » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:33 am
If you are looking at a bongo stand, take a look at the LP "seated" version. I've used one of these for several years when I play sitting on a drum throne.
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by franc » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:15 am
friends,
1.where or when is best in salsa to ''play some fills'' when playing a song with your bongo bell??
2.also when is best in a song to play ''bongo fills'' while playing bolero, franc i have found out that there is the right time when to ''fills'' and also found out the wrong time . does it depends of the song??? my best to all and ache!!! que viva el rumbon!!! franc ,
1.where or when is best in salsa to ''play some fills'' when playing a song with your bongo bell??
2.also when is best in a song to play ''bongo fills'' while playing bolero, franc
i have found out that there is the right time when to ''fills'' and also found out the wrong time . does it depends of the song??? my best to all and ache!!! que viva el rumbon!!! franc ,ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
Franc ♪♪
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by Raymond » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:11 pm
A couple of interest things here. First the "shaky leg" while playing bongos...
If you want to be a bongosero those inner leg or thigh muscles will have to develop. In my case it took awhile and still have bad habits like stretching my legs while playing sometimes. Is just time...Second, your seating position. You have to make sure you are in a comfortable position and you feet are bent in the best position they could support yourself. (Is like a baseball catcher but different because your feet need to be in a way is not uncomfortable to have them bent while seated and holding your bongos. Just enought to support the bongos between your legs).
The better your position while seated, that includes how you bend your feet to support the bongo, the less stress your are going to put into those inner thighs or legs muscles to hold the bongos between your legs. (Believe me, I've had marks of bongos by holding them tight and being in uncomfortable positions or trying to be in a position that the mike under my seat projects well....It gets worst with all these heavy bongos with comfort rims....Is a challenge).
My recommendation is to try to get those bongos out of your legs when you are between songs so you could rest your inner legs or thighs. I tend to place them "sideways" in one of my legs... At the beginning is going to be hard to hold bongos for a long time until legs get used to it...
FOR FRANC:
The second thing that Franc brings....Where to play....
1 - The bongo bell fills
The classic ones are when you are going into the mambo or mona of the arrangements. However, there you have to make sure the timbalero does not do a fill himself either by preparing to hit the cymbal or without it. (Most of the time when going into a mambo or mona, the timbalero has a cymbal hit).
Good communication between timbalero and bongo/campana player is by a look and head nodding. Generally, a timbalero will take the fill going into the mambo and the bongo campana player will do it going into the mambo. (Check records and noticed that's how they tend to do it).
There is no rule but now the norm is not to have both, timbalero and bongo bell player, doing fills preparing into the mambos or monas to not have the double fills clashing with each other. You have to time them. Remember that the band leader tends to give the cue when there are four bars going into the cue of the mambo or mona. The fills should be in the last two bars before the mambo or mona starts. (I think...I do this naturally and is second nature for me)...
The other time that there is a good place to put a bongo bell fill is in a mambo or mona that the brass or bass/piano parts in played twice to make the mona or mambo. Just two bars before it repeats itself you do the fill and you go back to what it was done before. (Check Willie Rosario's songs they have them). Is not that difficult...you will notice, the "song or arrangement ask for that fill"...
Another good part to do a bongo bell fill is in preparation of a cymbal hit...Those have to be carefully reviewed in the arrangement...(Generally, a timbalero will close a bongo bell fill with a cymbal clash. Sometimes is appropriate, sometimes is not). These are related or are the same as the one mentioned before about the mambos and monas because the cues going into them most of the time have a cymbal hit to "enter into them..."
One fill that is done sometimes is when there is a chorus and there in the first time the chorus is done you do a fill and finish with the singer starts its soneo. (They are rare but they are there). There I've seen people putting a bongo bell fill. (Check records with Alberto Machuca and Ray Colon who are masters of these. Also, check Manolito Gonzalez (always get his last name wrong) from Richie Ray old records...He did fills all the time).
No right or wrong here but is something you acquire with experience and sometimes a rule will not work because the song or arrangement does not "ask for the fill..." Como dicen...tienes que jugartelo de oido.....
2 - Bongo fills or improvisations in boleros
This is a hard one. I recorded a bolero once and it was hard to tell...There are some rules and apply also to salsa uptempo songs...
First, unless the song is a bachata be careful with overdoing fills. If you do that they tend to say you are playing by yourself. Boleros tend to have an uptempo part sometimes that the timbalero goes into the chacha bell and there is a good place for bongo fills or improvisations. In other words, in boleros the fills need to be subtle and carefully placed.
Again, I tend to avoid fills exactly when the cymbal is going to have a crash to avoid have my fills lost in the cymbal or when the timbale player does a preparation for a cymbal hit, (Notice same rule as with the cowbell fills and timbal fills that I mentioned before). In boleros is hard to tell the bongo fills or improvisations but the rules is not to over do it.
Other rule I follow is that the arrangements tends to give you a hint when to "echar" (or hit). When the timbale bell is there and the bongo bell is not supposed to be there yet...there you could go at it with the bongo...but again don't over do it).
I hope this helps!
Saludos!
Edited By Raymond on 1186694237
If you want to be a bongosero those inner leg or thigh muscles will have to develop. In my case it took awhile and still have bad habits like stretching my legs while playing sometimes. Is just time...Second, your seating position. You have to make sure you are in a comfortable position and you feet are bent in the best position they could support yourself. (Is like a baseball catcher but different because your feet need to be in a way is not uncomfortable to have them bent while seated and holding your bongos. Just enought to support the bongos between your legs).
The better your position while seated, that includes how you bend your feet to support the bongo, the less stress your are going to put into those inner thighs or legs muscles to hold the bongos between your legs. (Believe me, I've had marks of bongos by holding them tight and being in uncomfortable positions or trying to be in a position that the mike under my seat projects well....It gets worst with all these heavy bongos with comfort rims....Is a challenge).
My recommendation is to try to get those bongos out of your legs when you are between songs so you could rest your inner legs or thighs. I tend to place them "sideways" in one of my legs... At the beginning is going to be hard to hold bongos for a long time until legs get used to it...
FOR FRANC:
The second thing that Franc brings....Where to play....
1 - The bongo bell fills
The classic ones are when you are going into the mambo or mona of the arrangements. However, there you have to make sure the timbalero does not do a fill himself either by preparing to hit the cymbal or without it. (Most of the time when going into a mambo or mona, the timbalero has a cymbal hit).
Good communication between timbalero and bongo/campana player is by a look and head nodding. Generally, a timbalero will take the fill going into the mambo and the bongo campana player will do it going into the mambo. (Check records and noticed that's how they tend to do it).
There is no rule but now the norm is not to have both, timbalero and bongo bell player, doing fills preparing into the mambos or monas to not have the double fills clashing with each other. You have to time them. Remember that the band leader tends to give the cue when there are four bars going into the cue of the mambo or mona. The fills should be in the last two bars before the mambo or mona starts. (I think...I do this naturally and is second nature for me)...
The other time that there is a good place to put a bongo bell fill is in a mambo or mona that the brass or bass/piano parts in played twice to make the mona or mambo. Just two bars before it repeats itself you do the fill and you go back to what it was done before. (Check Willie Rosario's songs they have them). Is not that difficult...you will notice, the "song or arrangement ask for that fill"...
Another good part to do a bongo bell fill is in preparation of a cymbal hit...Those have to be carefully reviewed in the arrangement...(Generally, a timbalero will close a bongo bell fill with a cymbal clash. Sometimes is appropriate, sometimes is not). These are related or are the same as the one mentioned before about the mambos and monas because the cues going into them most of the time have a cymbal hit to "enter into them..."
One fill that is done sometimes is when there is a chorus and there in the first time the chorus is done you do a fill and finish with the singer starts its soneo. (They are rare but they are there). There I've seen people putting a bongo bell fill. (Check records with Alberto Machuca and Ray Colon who are masters of these. Also, check Manolito Gonzalez (always get his last name wrong) from Richie Ray old records...He did fills all the time).
No right or wrong here but is something you acquire with experience and sometimes a rule will not work because the song or arrangement does not "ask for the fill..." Como dicen...tienes que jugartelo de oido.....
2 - Bongo fills or improvisations in boleros
This is a hard one. I recorded a bolero once and it was hard to tell...There are some rules and apply also to salsa uptempo songs...
First, unless the song is a bachata be careful with overdoing fills. If you do that they tend to say you are playing by yourself. Boleros tend to have an uptempo part sometimes that the timbalero goes into the chacha bell and there is a good place for bongo fills or improvisations. In other words, in boleros the fills need to be subtle and carefully placed.
Again, I tend to avoid fills exactly when the cymbal is going to have a crash to avoid have my fills lost in the cymbal or when the timbale player does a preparation for a cymbal hit, (Notice same rule as with the cowbell fills and timbal fills that I mentioned before). In boleros is hard to tell the bongo fills or improvisations but the rules is not to over do it.
Other rule I follow is that the arrangements tends to give you a hint when to "echar" (or hit). When the timbale bell is there and the bongo bell is not supposed to be there yet...there you could go at it with the bongo...but again don't over do it).
I hope this helps!
Saludos!
Edited By Raymond on 1186694237
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by franc » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:37 am
raymond,
claro que si!!it has help!! thank you for the advice. may good things happend to you, you are a great resource!! i will put it to use. i have a great collection of salsa and will study the fills, thanks raymond , mucho ache for you!!! franc
claro que si!!it has help!! thank you for the advice. may good things happend to you, you are a great resource!! i will put it to use. i have a great collection of salsa and will study the fills, thanks raymond , mucho ache for you!!! franc
ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
Franc ♪♪
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by PRDRconguero » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:56 am
Whopbamboom wrote:If you are looking at a bongo stand, take a look at the LP "seated" version. I've used one of these for several years when I play sitting on a drum throne.
I have an LP seated stand as well, and love it. It helps a lot when you are going back and forth to the cowbell, and don't have to scramble to pick up and drop the bongo.
It's not the exact positioning as between the legs, but close....and a lot easier on your body.
Edited By PRDRconguero on 1186711015
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PRDRconguero - Posts: 166
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by Diceman » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:09 pm
Another good one for eurobongoceros is the Sonor seated bongo stand.
Cheap, right height, well built and fits in my bongo case.
heres the link
Bongo stand
suave
Diceman
Cheap, right height, well built and fits in my bongo case.
heres the link
Bongo stand
suave
Diceman
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Diceman - Posts: 495
- Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 9:28 am
- Location: London England
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