VINTAGE GON BOPS

[blavonski]

Very nice set of LP's.
The wood looks to me to be ( predominantly), Quarter sawn Mahogany of some sort., presumedly Honduran.
Also, because of the staves being Quarter sawn you have a much more superior and reliable construction and most likey will never crack as a result of the woods own movement.
Although it is hard to determine from the Photo, so many wood types look similar in photos; My guess is that the Gon Bops at the begining of this thread is a Mahogany sort as well, but it is Flat sawn, therefore having a completely different appearence. Or could be Cherry.

[RitmoBoricua]

Not mahogany. Pau Ferro more likely.

[blavonski]

Not mahogany. Pau Ferro more likely.

Which Bongo are you refering to Ritmo, the Gon Bops or the LP?

I doubt that either one is made of Pau Ferro, due to it being closely related to Rosewood which is normally reserved for smaller projects, jewelry boxes, Guitar fretboards, furniture inlays and so on. It's not a typically furniture building wood. The LP Bongo here has that optical characteristic ,( light Refracting shimmer ), that most Mahogany types have. I think that's it is deceptive because of it being, in my opinion Quarter sawn, mostly edge grain construction, but the shimmer is still present. I could be wrong though!

[RitmoBoricua]

I am referring to the LP. You see on original CP bongos, the first ones
that LP introduced that was the wood (Pau Ferro) used to make those
bongos in my opinion. Flat sawn mahogany grain does not have all
that figure action that this LP bongos have. See the picture below
of a sample of a quarter sawn Honduran mahogany plank. Honduran
mahogany for the most part have a uniform grain not too much figure
action, of course this is assuming that Honduran mahogany was used
by LP back in the day. I seriously doubt they used Cuban mahogany.

Pau Ferro grain, figure and color matches perfectly Machito's vintage
Maywood LP bongo set. Look at the picture of the guitar back again
and then look at the bongos and you tell me.

[RitmoBoricua]

Blavonski,
Now compare Macho's LP Maywood bongo set to an LP mahogany bongo set, not close.
Not the same wood. Notice how the LP mahogany bongo grain matches the picture of
the Honduran mahogany plank and Macho's bongo matches the picture of the guitar back.

[MACHO123]

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download/file.php?id=13152&t=1
download/file.php?id=13148&t=1

I think I'm with Ritmo on the Pau Ferro. I never heard of it but when I look at the grain or age lines, they tend to go from top to bottom just like a quarter sawn Oak Valje. On a Valje you can follow the age line from the top to the bottom of the Conga without interruption. That's an indication of it being quarter sawn. Not that that's the topic here but the wood on the snare drum and the bongo look very much alike except that the Bongo finish is dull but that may be that it's actually 50 years old.

[RitmoBoricua]

You have to be aware that back in those days Martin Cohen was probably using different
species of hardwood both domestic and exotic. I have an old LP PP bongo that the original
finish was glitter after I stripped the old finish to the bare wood I discover that the wood
use to make this bongos is most likely maple. Martin probably bought batches of exotic
hardwood that he liked and was available at the moment in the lumberyard like the
famous zebrawood. The most common hardwood for the iconic vintage LP bongo is the
Honduran mahogany but LP used other hardwoods as well although in smaller batches.
Also be aware that mahogany, zebrawood, pau ferro, zebrawood and other species are
what is called tone wood in the guitar making world; pretty good stuff to make drums
as well.

[blavonski]

... Martin probably bought batches of exotic
hardwood that he liked and was available at the moment in the lumberyard like the
famous zebrawood. The most common hardwood for the iconic vintage LP bongo is the
Honduran mahogany but LP used other hardwoods as well although in smaller batches.

This is exactly why I assume that it is Mohagony,7Honduran, African), but it is Quarter sawn/Edge grained cut and constructed as apposed to the Flat or Plane sawn example you presented. Your comparisons of machitos Mohagony Bongo and yours are, in my opinion two diffrent types of sawn wood. yours being flat sawn and his Quarter sawn. Besides that, there were then widly availble many different types of Mohagony at the time these drums were built.
At any rate, below are a couple links that may shed more light on what I mean here.

This one, when you scroll down the page some, directly shows, for example the stark difference( vertical/edge grain vs Face grain), between flat sawn and quarter saw Zebra wood!
http://www.alamohardwoods.com/blogs/ala ... ical-grain


http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5/Ge ... d-p/272662

[Psych1]

Pretty sure Ritmo got this right. When he mentioned the Early CPs I went digging through some old boxes I haven't looked at in years. Found this early CP. Not Zebra, not Walnut, and not Mahogany. It is a lighter, softer wood, nice grain but doesn't project well.

[RitmoBoricua]

You are right on the money Psych1. I have two sets of those
CP's and when I got the first one the wood intrigued me. I did
my research and came to the conclusion that the wood is
pau ferro.

Blavonsky give it up.

[blavonski]

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings!

Considering the fact that, so many wood types have a lot of superficial characteristis that make it very difficult, even when one has a piece of wood in their hands, to accurately identify what it is; we are all still guessing here.

Psych1,
I have a few questions regarding your CP Bongos.
1. How would you judge the weight of your CP's compared with that of your Other Bongo shells?
2. When you scrape the very underside of the shell edge with a file or heavy grit sandpaper to reach bare wood, what does it smell like?
3. Given the fact that CP line of LP drums are/were, for lack of a better term, it's beginner or economy line; what would be the likelyhood, from an economic stande point, that Martin Cohen, ( a scrutinizing business man to be sure ), would produce this line of drums from such exotic, special and relatively expensive wood as Pau ferro?
4. Are you 100% certain that this CP Bongo is made from Pau Ferro wood?

I would venture to assume that those CP's are made of a sort of Red Cedar.

[Psych1]

The Opera ain't over til the fat lady sings!

Considering the fact that, so many wood types have a lot of superficial characteristis that make it very difficult, even when one has a piece of wood in their hands, to accurately identify what it is; we are all still guessing here.

Psych1,
I have a few questions regarding your CP Bongos.
--- Interesting questions - OK, I'll play.

1. How would you judge the weight of your CP's compared with that of your Other Bongo shells?
---They are lighter in weight and a softer wood. I have seen similar wood grain on some Asian drums.

2. When you scrape the very underside of the shell edge with a file or heavy grit sandpaper to reach bare wood, what does it smell like?.

---I ain't sniffin sawdust!! Bad experience with rosewood dust. But, the bottom edge is unfinished and there is no odor I can discern - unlike the zebra that does have a distinct smell.

3. Given the fact that CP line of LP drums are/were, for lack of a better term, it's beginner or economy line; what would be the likelyhood, from an economic stande point, that Martin Cohen, ( a scrutinizing business man to be sure ), would produce this line of drums from such exotic, special and relatively expensive wood as Pau ferro?

---I have actually had this conversation with Martin Cohen. He experimented with some different woods, and other materials, in the early days, even made a few solid-shell bongos. DK about wood costs in 1970. But, he could hear the difference better than I can. I don't believe he would have intentionally made a CP bongo that sounded better than an LP. But that is all speculation.

4. Are you 100% certain that this CP Bongo is made from Pau Ferro wood?

---No!. But I do have a friend who should know. I'll go ask him today or tomorrow.

I would venture to assume that those CP's are made of a sort of Red Cedar.

---So, thats why you asked me to smell them. I don't think it smells like cedar but it actually does look like cedar. Could be.

[RitmoBoricua]

Blavonsky you got the woods on these bongo all wrong.
First is my understanding that CP was a separate company
that LP bought-out. Most likely these pau ferro bongos
probably were in production before LP bought CP. As a
mater of fact if I am not mistaken the CP pau ferros bongos
we are talking about were made in Taiwan. Later-on when
LP moved production to Thailand the CP bongos wood
became the infamous "thai oak" (rubberwood).

Second I owned two of these CP pau ferro bongos and I have
refinished both of them they are not red cedar, repeat they
are not red cedar. The first two photos of a pau ferro CP
bongos I posted on this thread are of one of the sets that I
refinished. I tweaked the grain hue a bit with a water based
dye stain that I blended so there are not too much contrast
between the grain and the figure.

You are the one still guessing what is what. I know what is mahogany,
pau ferro,etc. Specially since I actually own these bongo sets we are
talking about and have refinished them. So you would think that I
should know what I am talking about. Do you own any vintage LP
mahogany, zebrawood, walnut, pau ferro bongo set? I guess since
I have been around LP products since the early 1970's that gives
me little advantage. There are no substitute for experience, give it
up Blavonsky.

[RitmoBoricua]

Also back in the day some of these exotic hardwoods were not
that expensive. Today to make production bongos with some of
these exotic hardwoods would be almost cost prohibited plus there
are all kind of regulations on exotic hardwoods at least here in the
U.S. For the most part today you have to go to a drum maker like
sol percussion and put it a special order to have a bongo made out
of an exotic hardwood of your choice if the stock is available and
then you have pay a premium. That's one reason I cherish some of
these vintage bongos even if in disrepair and if can buy them at a
good price I go to work on them and bring them back to life.

[blavonski]

Psych1,
thanks for playing along!
Yeah, I understand not wanting to sniff sawdust. One can have a bad reaction if allergic. Also, not all Cedar has a distinctive odor and in some that do, the odor is lesser or greater than others. Also, over decades, the original scent will lose it's potency as the oils evaporate.
Am interested in what your friend reports back.