Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

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Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Beatnik07 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:50 pm

These last several months I have been subject to an almost uninterrupted lower back pain. The pain manifests most when and after seating at a desk, after playing bongos seated, and also laying on a bed (even though mattress is new). Whereas standing up or walking is almost painless. I will be seeing my MD soon, but I thought I'd evoke this topic here.

I couldn't find on internet a direct connection between bongos playing and back pain, but there are several sites discussing back pains for drummers, such as:
https://www.totaldrummer.com/drummer-back-pain/
https://www.x8drums.com/blog/posture-an ... challenge/

My questions to the long-time and seasoned wise players here:
--- Is there a documented connection between playing bongos seated (without a bongos stand) and lower back pain ?
--- If yes, is such connection due to an incorrect posture/setup or is it a "usual" happening for such activity ?
--- Finally, when playing seated, would a bongos stand help, as far as back pain ?
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Chtimulato » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:53 pm

Hello everybody.

I guess and hope Jorge will have some answers.

So far, what I can suggest you from my own experience is :

- buy a decent stool
- try to find the right and natural, comfortable position (with the back upright) and try to play relaxed : there's no hurry, you're not gonna leave next week for a world tour with the Rolling Stones, so there's no pressure here, playing must remain a pleasure
- a stand can help, as far as it may relieve the tension in your knees - but you could also tell that a tension or a pain in your knees means that your position is not ergonomic... A stand also allow to switch quickly to another instrument, if only the campana.
This can also help relieving your knees : https://www.gonbops.com/products-category/bongo-pads/. I own a set, which was gifted to me, but never used it so far. For the "mockingbirds", Orestes Vilato uses them... :)

I know it can sometimes be difficult to find the right position while playing seated, it also happen to me sometimes. Try to make it as cool as possible, or you will be focussing on the position and the resulting pain, neglecting then your playing.
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Juaort » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:34 pm

Sorry to hear it Beatnik07! I too have a bad back, I know how that feels. I have two bulging disks at the bottom of my spine. For years now and have gotten worst in the last 10? Now I can’t say it was from playing Bongos, but I do know that how you sit and your posture does contribute to fatigue on your lower back while playing. Chtimulato is correct, a good sitting throne helps a ton.

Feel better,

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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Beatnik07 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:42 am

Thanks Chtimulato and Juaort.

Like I said I am not sure that my bongos playing is the cause or the exacerbation of my back pain, or whether it is just unrelated.
I do know that my throne is a very inexpensive one, entry level type. I initially bought it not to do drums or percussions, but to operate samplers, synthesizers, etc. Then when I started playing bongos I used it.

This is the one:
Image
As one can see, it is a low cost throne, with single braced legs and a quite thin and firm pad. But I got it for intermittent use and because of the price too ...

Can someone recommend a good throne for bongos playing (meaning an ergonomic or back sparing one) ? Would you recommend those saddle or motorcycle shaped thrones for playing bongos ?

Also, what would be good guidelines to set correctly the throne height ?

Thanks ! :)
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Chtimulato » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:16 pm

I've been using this one for a few years now and am quite happy with it :

https://www.baguetterie.fr/pearl-d1000sn-siege-roadster-assise-ronde-bas.html

I also own this one, bought second hand, and am happy with it too :
https://www.baguetterie.fr/mapex-t270a-siege-rond.html and left it in our rehearsal room.

Our drummer has been using such a model for a while, though it's "tired" now :
https://www.baguetterie.fr/tama-ht530b-siege-1st-chair-moto-vynyle.html

From what I know, you should be able to sit on the throne with your legs at right angle, place the bongó between your knees and then cross your feet. Backwards. It's difficult to explain that in a foreign language. :) And check then if you feel comfortable. I also have back (and shoulder, knee etc.) issues, but in my case, it's not related to my playing, not only at any case. You've to find out the right position - maybe with a teacher.

I suggest you to make a trip to La Baguetterie, the big drum shop in Paris, to take your time and to try out several thrones. Buy the one you feel comfortable on, if you can afford it.

Stay safe everybody.
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Beatnik07 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:36 pm

Thanks Chtimulato !!
The Pearl to me looks best, but wow, almost 200€ .... Still, I suppose it's a good idea for health reasons and comfort to invest into a decent throne.
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Chtimulato » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:17 pm

It costed about 100 € at the time, maybe 10 years ago.

As I said, you should try several out :
https://www.baguetterie.fr/hardware/sieges.html

https://www.stars-music.fr/search?q=si%C3%A8ge+batterie

https://www.thomann.de/fr/sieges_batterie.html

Maybe you'll find something else for a better price.
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Beatnik07 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:05 am

Chtimulato wrote:It costed about 100 € at the time, maybe 10 years ago.

As I said, you should try several out :
https://www.baguetterie.fr/hardware/sieges.html

https://www.stars-music.fr/search?q=si%C3%A8ge+batterie

https://www.thomann.de/fr/sieges_batterie.html

Maybe you'll find something else for a better price.


Cool, thanks again Chtimulato !
:)
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Thomas Altmann » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:28 pm

Hi Beatnik,

I never had back problems from playing bongos, congas or batá. These instruments are so physical to play that I generally create enough basic tension (tonus) in my body to avoid that. However, I did have back problems occasionally from playing drum set, not really being in the Heavy-Metal business ...

I remembered I had two older issues of the Modern Drummer magazine that addressed this subject, and I did not have to search too long. The great thing is that MD successively publishes a lot of their back issues for free download on the internet, so I collected reading material that will probably last forever. Here are the two issues that refer to back problems:

https://www.moderndrummer.com/wp-conten ... md35cs.pdf
https://www.moderndrummer.com/wp-conten ... md46cs.pdf

Look for "Exploring Self-Awareness" by George Marsh in 08-09/1982 and for "Lower Back Problems - And How To Avoid Them" by Dr. Roy H. Siegel in 08/1983. I did not re-read them before I posted this, so it's up to you to judge whether what is useful for you.

The MD used to be a wonderful magazine. It is primarily aimed at the drumset player, but sometimes you will find something valuable for a percussionist as well. I stopped purchasing it only because the music - and the drummers - have changed to an extent that I practically dropped out of the target group.

Stay healthy - in your back, too!
Thomas
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Chtimulato » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:36 am

Great links, Thomas !

Besten Dank ! :)
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Beatnik07 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:58 pm

Yep, Thanks Thomas !

Unlike with congas which are not held by the player, and the Bata drum which rests freely on the lap of the player, bongos must be held between the legs. The bongos player is constantly fighting gravity in order to hold the drum in position (unless a stand is used).

And maybe even more important, by nature, the bongos playing position is asymmetrical: not only the Macho is supposed to be higher than the Hembra. But also, due to their different sizes Macho and Hembra are not held symmetrically: the left leg holds the Macho in a different area of the leg than does the right leg with the Hembra.

I now suspect (though without conclusive proof) that I was seating way too low when playing bongos, which forced my back to tilt further sideways. This probably ended up worsening my pre-existing scoliosis.

Fortunately, the doctor said the pain was probably muscular and not related to a spine or hip injury.
I have adjusted my seating height and posture, we'll see how it evolves. At worst, I'll be forced to play with a stand.
:)
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Re: Lower back pain and playing bongos: a connection ?

Postby Thomas Altmann » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:05 pm

Fortunately, the doctor said the pain was probably muscular and not related to a spine or hip injury.
I have adjusted my seating height and posture, we'll see how it evolves. At worst, I'll be forced to play with a stand.


I'm glad to hear you consulted a doctor and you are working on it. I'm sure it will get well if you keep on paying attention to your posture.

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