Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo player ?

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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Siete Leguas » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:08 pm

Hi Thomas,
as much as I would like to understand your points regarding the different arrangements of "La negra Tomasa"/"Bilongo"/... , I can't find the calm right now to listen carefully to all the versions that you mentioned.

So far I've had a (rather quick) listen to the first two versions and noticed:

- Conjunto Casino: I hear the clave jumping after the first cierre (? - not sure what "cierre" means here) around 0:27, same thing later on.
- Rubén González: I can't hear any clave jumping at 1:14. Did you mean somewhere else?

I'll try to listen more calmly to all the versions some other time. I would be very grateful if you could add some time references to the specific parts that you were discussing, though! :)

Cheers!
SL

P.S. Interesting (especially in connection with the topic of this thread) to see what an actual percussion chart looks like. At first sight, "ich verstehe nur Bahnhof"!
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Chtimulato » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:33 pm

Interesting thread, indeed.

I haven't found the time to listen carefully to all suggested songs.

BTW, I own several other versions of Bilongo, I can remember 2 at least : one by Vocal Sampling I believe, and one by Henri Guédon. I'll try to find the time to listen carefully to them. And to post them here.

About percussion notation, it's not uniform. Every 'master' can have his own notation system. When they write a method or write down someting (a solo for instance), they usually show their own "nomenclature" at the beginning or at the end.
For instance, this is something I wrote down during a bongó masterclass with Abraham Mansfaroll (a Cuban percussionnist who lives in France by now I think). It's in French, sorry. Someone in the class recorded everything with a pocket recorder and I wrote it down then for everybody. These are mostly variations on the 2nd bar (the "3" part of the clave, except for the las one, which lasts 2 bars).
BTW bis, he taught a phrase they teach to Cuban kids when they learn bongó : Pi-ca-pa-no-pi-ca-tum (1 & 2 & 3 & 4), which can be very useful, and ask us to sing it while playing.

[img][img]https://zupimages.net/up/21/05/53y7.jpg[/img][/img]


Sorry for the bad quality, it's an old scan. And I just noticed I forgot to note the "3" for the 2 triplets in the last line. Please tell me if you don't understand.
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Siete Leguas » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:17 am

@Thomas: Nevermind, I had another listen to the different versions and I think I got it now. If I hear it correctly, in Rubén González' version they don't jump the clave right after the break like in Conjunto Casino's, but a few bars later instead (at 0:47, for example - why!!??). Tito Rodriguez' arrangement is nice indeed, but without that typical "ay! ay!" part, it doesn't sound fully like "La negra Tomasa" to me - I feel there's something missing. I like Palmieri's solution, doubling the last part and respecting the clave.

@Chtimulato: Regarding your notes: at first sight, "j'y comprends rien!" :)
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:29 am

@Siete Leguas:

- A cierre is a unison break /stop time passage, usually between two separate sections in an arrangement, or indicating the closing of such a section.
- I think there are different names for what I called "guia", and the term itself is obviously used for different musical events. The English equivalent for "guia" is "verse". It's the story-telling part for the sonero, the melody section.
- Moña is an instrumental section similar to the mambo section, but over the same chord changes as the montuno. Other people may use the term for other things. I got it from Charley Girard's book "Salsa - The Rhythm of Latin Music".

If somebody hands you a sheet like the two pages I posted, he wants you to play something on your instrument that fits his arrangement. You know you are supposed to play something in a few minutes, but what, and when? The chart provides some information; how do you decipher it?

1. The time signature says "alla breve" or cut time, that means each measure is metered by two half notes. You may count the measures either in 2 half notes or in 4 quarter notes if you still feel the beat on the half notes. The tempo is given as 166 bpm - for the half notes. This is wrong! That's the tempo of the quarter notes. The half notes are half as fast, accordingly. This approximates the tempo of the original recording. (Be ready for notation mistakes in your chart.) Notating in cut time (the C with the vertical line running across) is typical for North American jazz arrangements. Latin American arrangers will often write in 2/4 time.

2. The remark "cáscara 2-3" lets you know that the chart is actually a timbales /drum set chart, because it's the timbalero or trap drummer who is playing a cáscara part, not the conguero or bongocero. Roughly, however, a bongocero will play bongos where the timbalero plays the cáscara, and the conguero will play on one conga drum only. This provides low dynamics. When the timbalero goes to the bell (cencerro, campana), then the bongocero will pick up his campana, too, while the conguero engages two drums by adding the hembra. This is for the louder sections, such as the montuno or the mambo.
This is a simplification, a rough guide.

About the rhythmic figures, the actual notes that appear in the chart, you will have to make choices about what to play and what to leave up exclusively to the timbalero: Some kicks are to be accented by the timbalero only, while the other percussionists continue to play time. You will find that out while you're playing. In most cases your experience or your feeling will tell you what is meant. In a rehearsal you can discuss it after the first run-through. A lot is also up to interpretation; a timbalero may choose not to hit every note that is written in order to maintain the flow. Or he leaves some work for one of his fellow percussionists.

Up to this point you already have an idea of what type of rhythm the music will have: It is probably a medium-up son, guaracha or mambo. But let's have a closer look at the entire chart. I recommend that you first look for the overall structure of the whole piece, the "road map":

3. The piece starts with an introduction, continues with the verse (guia), both dynamically down, followed by the louder montuno section, then a piano solo, a loud instrumental moña that even builds in intensity with the trumpet solo, going back to a montuno and finally closing with an "extro", i.e. a coda.

4. Important for the "road map" is to look for repetition brackets. These are the fat double bars with the two dots on the inside. The passages in these brackets are to be repeated, usually once. The guia has a different closing measure the second time around. Where it says "rep. ad lib.", the passage has to be repeated ad libitum, i.e. as often as desired. You have to watch out for a signal (cue) by the conductor, soloist, leader, singer or whoever directs the band. Look out for the extro: The 4 measures in the repetition brackets are to be repeated 3 times, meaning you have to play these 4 bars 4 times! Can you see that? And the last two bars of the actual ending (4th. time through) differ from the 3 previous turns. It is wise to memorize the rhythmic figure that closes the piece, because this is something that is not to be missed.

5. Now look for any da capo, segno, fine or coda signs. These would tell you where to jump to the top (da capo, d.c.) or any specified bar within the arrangement (dal segno, d.s.), or where to jump to the final section (al coda), the coda or extro. Sometimes something is repeated "al fine"; then you have to look where in your chart a note is noted as "fine", because this will be the last note you play, the note that ends the piece. If you have a d.s. or a d.c., and you are passing repeated passages, find out whether these repeats are to be observed on the d.c. or d.s.. In such a case, any "dal segno" or "da capo" should be marked as "con rep." (with repeat) or "senza rep." (without repeat). None of that applies here. There are no da capo's or dal segno's in our chart. It reads straight from top to bottom.

6. Next you find out whether there are any solo spots for you. (None in this one.)

7. Are there any breaks where you have to stop playing? Yes Sir! There are silence marks in the third line on the first page. The only notes you have to hit are three times on 4, and two times 4-and-1. The fourth line starts with a tresillo, marking the 3-part of the clave. This is where the clave changes to 3-2 due to the odd 5-bar phrase in line three. Line four has 7 bars length in each turn; so that leads us back to 2-3 clave. The chart makes it visible.

The quarter note with the three slashes and the tie at the end of the guia denotes a roll. Correct: It's an abanico that introduces the montuno section.

After the piano solo we see four bars of eighth notes with a crescendo. You start at a very soft level here, gradually (!) inreasing the volume to arrive at the moña section with full power.

Basically you have to know how to count first. The way I notated the piece, in alla breve, one measure spans the length of a martillo figure, and two measures the lenght of one clave or one cáscara figure. Now try to follow the chart along while listening to Palmieri's Bilongo. You will figure out very soon what the notes mean that you are passing on your road. If not, practice reading! It will be fun to catch up all the breaks and kicks in some new piece of music that you are playing for the first time without even knowing it! And it isn't that difficult! A nice book to start learning this is Ted Reed's "Progressive Steps to Syncopation" for instance.

You will also find that there are long passages where you don't have to look at your chart at all. In the montuno and solo sections a quick glance at what comes next is enough. Then you play as free as you feel, waiting for the leader's cue. Then you play what comes up, and back you are for the next section - playing free again. Of course there are charts that are more demanding and more difficult to read than this one. One more reason to start simple (like with this chart).

I hope this helps.

As to the Rubén González clip, the mess starts at about 0:32. Just clap the clave through from the beginning, and you will hear that accent on 2+ on the 2-side of the clave (where it does not really belong). This is the accent of the last-but-one bar in the fourth line of my chart (first "house").

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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:49 am

Great explanation, Thomas.

@ Siete Leguas : I'll try to explain it a little bit later on, sorry. :)
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Siete Leguas » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:04 pm

@Thomas: I appreciate your thorough explanation about how to read charts, thank you very much! I'll try to get a little more familiar with them by practicing a bit with Palmieri's "Bilongo" - although I am internally hoping that nobody ever hands me one of those and expects anything from me, other than a paper plane! :)

It looks like it must take quite a lot of practice to become fluent navigating charts, without losing too much of the concentration needed for playing (+ listening to the other musicians!)... especially if you can't listen to the arrangement first, or when dealing with more complex ones.

One question, though: what does "open" mean here?


@Chtimulato: Feel no pressure at all! It was just a little joke... Explaining bongó variations just with words must be almost impossible. But if you happen to still have the audio file (and you can somehow share it here), that would be cool!
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:53 pm

It looks like it must take quite a lot of practice to become fluent navigating charts, without losing too much of the concentration needed for playing (+ listening to the other musicians!)... especially if you can't listen to the arrangement first, or when dealing with more complex ones.


Like they say in German, "Übung macht den Meister". Practice and practice... :)

One question, though: what does "open" mean here?

I could be wrong, but I think it means "ad libitum", i.e. as many grids / cycles as the piano player wants to play.

On my picture, the first notation is the standard martillo pattern. Try to play it while saying "Pi-ca-pa-no-pi-ca-tum-".
The square is for the right hand and the dot for the left hand.
The 1st line is for the macho, and the bottom one for the hembra. You can notice there's only one hembra note here, on the 4.
The 'normal' written notes are open tones with the right index finger - or the left one if you are left-handed - either "plain", either muffled with the other thumb (the "pi").

The underlined 'pyramid" is the left thumb resting on the skin to muffle the following note (the "pi"). The downwards pointing triangle is for the fingertips. I use this notation for congas notation too (palm-tip), but some people reverse it ('pyramid' for fingertips, and downwards triangle for palm-bass. The cross (not used here) is for the slaps.

The following lines are just variations with open tones. I'll try to make an audio or a video one of these days.

The audio files from the masterclass have gone lost as time goes back, sorry.
Last edited by Chtimulato on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:36 pm

You are all welcome! It took me a while to set up the long text, but I had the time (obviously), and I really wanted to give an idea what this thing (chart reading) is all about. At the same time I could demonstrate visually how odd phrasing looks like and how it works in changing clave direction.

Yes, "open" means the same as "rep. ad lib.", as opposed to being limited to a fixed amount of bars in duration. Let me add that the same percussion part can look completely different, depending on who wrote the chart, and how. I had already mentioned that it could have been written in 2/4 instead of cut time (2/2). I've seen comparable charts notated in 4/4, which means that in a clave change by odd phrasing you have to insert a 2/4 bar, which is a meter change. All of the musical terms could be written in Spanish or any other language. The given numbers of bars in a section could be replaced by real written-out bars with slashes and repeat signs (./.). Correspondingly, repeat signs could have been used in the last 3 bars of the 4-bar crescendo after the piano solo.

Also, it's a luxury to find so much useful information in a chart. Sometimes the clave direction is not marked. Then you must either ask, speculate from the figures that appear in your chart or spy into the trumpet charts. Or you can have someone sing the melody for you. Sometimes a chart does not say where to play cáscara or bell, or what is happening in the ensemble; you may be advised to play softly (p=piano) for a certain passage, and when you arrive there you realize it's a piano solo. Alternatively, it might only say "piano solo", and you are supposed to know that you have to cut down dynamics by playing cáscara/bongó/1 tumbadora. (Tip for the bongoceros: Don't burst into a wild repique under the piano solo, because that draws the listeners attention from the soloist. Playing only martillo or a one-bar pattern with the 4+ as the only accent is smart.)

Most arrangers don't have a clue what a percussionist is doing, or what he can do, and they know that. So they leave it up to us what we do in all those empty bars. On the other hand, I would have a serious problem if I had to read a percussion part where each and every note is written out! Fortunately, I haven't seen anything like that so far. But I have seen charts that were overloaded with tons of information that I didn't need, like written-out fills (rellenos). Fills should be improvised. It is unnecessary and confusing to mix the obsolete with the relevant.

- although I am internally hoping that nobody ever hands me one of those and expects anything from me, other than a paper plane!

First of all, like Chtimulato said, the only secret is practice, doing something over and over again, gathering experience. "What you do most is what you do best", is what the Zen master archer said in Eugen Herrigel's book "Zen in the Art of Archery". And don't be afraid to lose your feeling, your communication with the other musicians in the band or whatever, because you are reading your part. That's B.S.! It is absolutely possible (and of prime importance) to play together with your fellow musicians and to supply power, swing and feeling while you read. I know it, because I experienced it. I don't know why this works, but it does. Maybe it has to do with the brain hemispheres, or with conditioning?

On the other hand, the moment of truth comes in the actual performance. Nobody will ask you how you learned the music as long as you are delivering a top performance on stage. That's all that counts, no matter whether you read or not. In fact, it looks much better on stage not to read while you are performing. So if you are able to learn the tunes by quickly memorizing all the signals you need, like song text passages /vocal cues, and you remember them in performance, then you don't need all that paper, and that's even better. To a certain degree it's also possible to learn the music while performing. But I have worked with band leaders who gave everybody their charts except the percussionists, like "Oh, you don't need any music, you'll hear it." And ahead lied a senseless parcours of getting lost, falling into pits and running into walls with no end - another proof for the assumption that some musicians have no idea of what it is that we do.

Which brings me to a final aspect: The guy who brings in some new charts for the band has perhaps spent hours and hours of work and inspiration, using all the skills that he can contribute as a composer or arranger. He might have written some wonderful music that nobody would ever get to hear if the musicians wouldn't play it. If you bear with his ignorance about percussion, and if you can read his chart, then you are able to help giving birth to this great music that no one, not even you, has ever heard before. So don't feel threatened by the guy and all his music sheets, and don't put him down for not knowing what an Abakuá rhythm sounds like. Be as supportive as you can! If he screwed up the clave, things become a bit more complicated: If he is unlikely or unwilling to accept your advice and edit his arrangement, you have to prove some inventiveness. Remember that some of the best Latin /Cuban bands have recorded tracks that were cruzado, among them Los Van Van and Irakere. If this becomes too annoying after some time, you can still quit the band!

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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Siete Leguas » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:03 pm

Moin Thomas!
actually, I would no longer be so reluctant to work with such a chart. If given enough time to analyse it and rehearse, I think I'd be able to make sense of it and play accordingly (-ish). Thanks again!

Salut Chtimulato!
thanks for the explanation! Your notation sytem is pretty clever. I can "read" your martillo clearly now, but obviously in part because I already know how it is supposed to sound. I guess I could try to interpret the variations that you wrote down, at least the easier ones, but I'll never be quite sure if I'm playing them right until I can listen to them and compare - I'm definitely the listening type! If you ever record them, I'll be glad to try and learn them, they look interesting!
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby Chtimulato » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:36 pm

I'll try to make either an audio or video file... soon...
as soon as possible. Please be patient. :)
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Re: Does one need to read music to be a competent bongo play

Postby caballoballo » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:30 am

Saludos, long time without being here. Imho reading music and understanding the charts or maps do help you as a musician. For example in the Conjunto where I play the musical director distributes charts for everybody including the rhythm section. Our chart will have the breaks, repetitions as the others ones (bass, trompets, piano, ect) clave 2/3 or 3/2 at the beginning of the chart or other places where you need to know if there's a change and also when to play the campana or any other indication . So it helps a lot during rehearsals so everybody is following on the same page and also shortens the time it takes to mount a new theme. The more knowledge, education and training you have the easier for you to become better. Now, once you memorize the song then you can forget about the music chart and use it as a reference during live performances. There is a book by Louis Bellson called modern Text in 4/4, there you will find different patterns which are written in every way that you may find in different charts as arrengers have their own way of writing. So imho it is very important for you as a musician to understand musical notation.
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