Shaving a goat skin

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Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:00 pm

Hello,

I just changed the macho head of my bongó and mounted a small goat skin I got from a djembé dealer. It's a nice thin (<1mm) dark skin; the only problem is that it still has a lot of short hair all over, which makes it quite rough. I am considering shaving it with a razor blade or sanding it down with sandpaper, but I'm not sure what would be better (and safer). Any suggestions?

The skin is now drying. I'm really looking forward to playing it, never had a goat skin before.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:45 pm

From what I know, you can either shave it with a razor blade while it's still wet (you've gotta be careful !) or, what I prefer, wait till it's fully dry and use a knife blade to shave it.

That kind of knife :
https://cdn.couteau-laguiole.com/55-thickbox_default/couteau-laguiole-ecologie.jpg (peasant knife)

Use the round part of the blade, just before the point, and respect the hair direction.

This being said, I'm afraid your goat skin won't last very very long, because it may not stand frequent tuning and detuning.
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Juaort » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:54 pm

Siete leguas, I’m with Chtimulato. I’ve Had skins that had a little hair left over. It’s better to use a blade when it’s dry. When wet you’re really taking a risk. I use a single edge razor blade and u use it while the skin is tuned. That way the surface is flat. I purchased skins from a guy in Montana USA that made Native Indian Drums and used his own skins from the Farm he owned. But I had to shave them down a bit a couple of times.

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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Juaort » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:57 pm

Just FYI. Goat tends to be a little ringy for my taste, but that’s just my experience. I usually put Horse, Calf, Deer on the Macho. These tent to have a better tone to them. I’d love to hear what your set sound me like once you get complete. From the picture you shared they look sweet!!
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:11 pm

Hey guys, thanks for your feedback. I talked to the seller, who usually works with these skins for djembes, and he recommended me to just sand it down after it's dry and tuned. I think that's what I'm going to do, cause I also can't find a proper knife or blade at the moment. I'll post about in a few days. Cheers!
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Chtimulato » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:56 am

Yes, I forgot to mention sanding. with a very fine grit (120). But can't you find a kitchen knife, something to cut meat or onions ?
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:21 pm

Chtimulato wrote:But can't you find a kitchen knife, something to cut meat or onions ?

No. I always eat my onions and animals one-piece. :P

Seriously, I did a little test with different knives and even a scalpel on the dry leftover skin and it wasn't working well (without tension, though). Sanding seems to work out fine and I find it easier, so I'll go with that. I'll try to be careful around the bearing edge and not mess it up.
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:07 am

I ended up sanding the skin with 400 grit sandpaper, once it was fully dry and tuned. That worked very well, it's nice and smooth now. The skin turned out to be much thinner than I expected, I'd say around 0.6-0.7 mm (EDIT: actually <0.5 mm) even more now after sanding. We'll see how long it lasts...

@ Juaort: Overall I like the sound and feel of this skin, it's nice and crispy and the martillo "clicks" are pretty awesome. But you were right, it is indeed way more ringy than the calf skins I've had before. I wonder if it will get any better when it breaks in? I also find more difficult to get nice slaps from it, although I don't like to play those very often anyway. I'll try to make a video and post it here soon.

@ Chtimulato: I meant no offense with my last post, hope you didn't take as such. I was just joking, but sometimes my sense of humor is a bit unrefined. Your comments are always much appreciated!
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Chtimulato » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:15 pm

it is indeed way more ringy than the calf skins I've had before. I wonder if it will get any better when it breaks in?


Once you feel it's broken in (can last quite a while, it depends of how much and how often you play), if you still notice this ringing, you can try to fix that with tape. Put it on the inside of the skin. Just a suggestion.

I meant no offense with my last post, hope you didn't take as such. I was just joking, but sometimes my sense of humor is a bit unrefined.


No worries, compadre. I like joking too, and took your comment as such. :) I know it's sometimes difficult when you switch from a language to another (this happens often to me, and people don't get my joke, which I find very disappointing :D ), but in this case, you made me smile.

I did a little test with different knives and even a scalpel on the dry leftover skin and it wasn't working well (without tension, though)

Yes, the skin has to be stiff to be shaved with a knife.
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:53 pm

Chtimulato wrote:Once you feel it's broken in (can last quite a while, it depends of how much and how often you play), if you still notice this ringing, you can try to fix that with tape. Put it on the inside of the skin. Just a suggestion.

Good tip! I'll definitely try that if the ringing stays.

One more question: Some time ago I got the tip of leaving the skin tuned for the first couple of weeks or so, until it starts to break in, and that worked well. However, I am not sure about that with this skin, because it's so thin and from what I hear, goat skin is particularly sensitive. Also, the weather is pretty crazy here these days. Today I detuned one whole turn after playing, just in case, but... should I leave it tuned at the beginning, or always detune?
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Chtimulato » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:27 pm

I'd say detune. But it's just me, maybe somebody else will tell you something else. I usually tune my drums with 2 half turns (= 1 whole turn) on each lug. And the same for detuning. Depending on temperature changes, of course.
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Thomas Altmann » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:50 pm

Bongo macho? Always detune! I felt uneasy each time I forgot it. It's a thin hide under extreme tension. It will suffer more than a conga head, and you would have to replace it often. Now this is wasting organic material ... In turn, you should check hooks and nuts more often, because the constant usage will wear out the threads, and before you know it, the screws are stuck.

That does not refer to plastic heads, of course.

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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Siete Leguas » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:14 pm

OK, detuning will be then. It would be a pity if it broke right away. Regarding the nuts, I remember Chtimulato once recommended in another thread using bronze nuts instead of the steel ones, because they are softer on the threads. He wrote that for metric lugs (my bongó is Meinl, I think they are 8 mm lugs) you can use the ones from FIAT 500. That's something I want to do, I am not sure where to get them though. I will ask around when everything gets back to "normal". Thank you guys for the advice!
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Thomas Altmann » Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:09 am

Hi Siete Leguas,

one short remark: Breaking is not what is likely to happen to the skin if you leave it under tension. It will become overstretched, losing some of its vibrating property and lowering in pitch, so you have to tune it up a tiny bit each time you want to play it; until you reach the end, where you pull the collar more than the head surface. At that point, the drum sounds already dull, and you have to play considerably harder to obtain a decent bongo sound from it and be heard through the band. Finally you have to replace the head sooner than necessary.
I assume that this comes from tearing the inner texture of the animal hide. To a certain degree, this phenomenon is perceivable as "breaking in" the skin, but beyond that, the process becomes actually destructive. On the long term, this is inevitable, anyway; but we want to postpone it as far as possible.

It happened to me only once that I broke a bongo (macho) head, and that was when I was tuning up the drum of a disciple I once had. It was the LP-Armando Peraza-Valje model, which sounds fantastic, but has a relatively narrow rim (or wide shell, if you will). This causes a sharp, almost 90-degree-angle over the drum edge - I talked about that in a previous thread. I had too much faith in the construction and the designers of the instrument to follow my instinct, and tore it up right at the edge. At the end however, my pupil was better off with the goat skin I tucked for him in replacement. I find goat excellent for batá culatas and bongó macho.

Greetings,
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Re: Shaving a goat skin

Postby Chtimulato » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:16 pm

you can use the ones from FIAT 500. That's something I want to do, I am not sure where to get them though.


The man who gave the the tip is Italian, and told me I just had to type something like "Fiat 500 + bronze [or brass] nuts + exhaust manifold" in a browser. You can find several on eBay, and other sites too, for car spare parts, and even in ship spare parts shops.
The nuts can be either out of bronze or out of brass, as long as it is softer than steel.
Type these words in any language, and it will work.

I also use nylon spacers and spacer bushings to preserve the lug threads :
https://www.b-plastic.com/shop/en/gar/Product-Group/08/48536
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