Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:06 pm

Hi Chtimulato,

i have to admit I've never been a big fan of political protest songs. Politics is left- and music is right-brainy, and I feel they rarely go together well. And Nina Hagen - she is by one year younger than I; but I always regarded Punk more as a social phenomenon. I like music that grooves, swings, and has some finesse, and I still do. Punk was like the contrary. When Nina Hagen became successful, I had already been bitten by the Latin-bug. I've never been part of the Punk movement. Right away, I could name you maybe a dozen of Pop- and Rock bands that I like, Soul and Funk not even included, so please don't think I despise everything that's not Jazz or Latin music.

Yes, as a musician you often run into bizarre situations. I wonder whether that could also have happened to me in a place like New York (apart from the fact that there would be at least 10 other percussionists who would get the call before me). But I read sone reports of famous American studio drummers like Jeff Porcaro (in the Modern Drummer magazine) which suggest that you must be ready for all kinds of funny stuff, anywhere. And the longer you are active, the more stories you can tell. I believe that a musician experiences more in each single year than the average 9-5 employee in 45 years. And that's also great - if you are open enough.

Thomas
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Chtimulato » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:06 pm

Thomas Altmann wrote:
I could name you maybe a dozen of Pop- and Rock bands that I like, Soul and Funk not even included, so please don't think I despise everything that's not Jazz or Latin music.


No worries about your tastes (and others'), Thomas : "De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum", "tastes and colours are not to be discussed. " :)
I like Rock as much as Jazz, but I don't force anybody to think like me. I like in fact almost every kind of music, except for country music, punk ( :D ), operetta, and of course the usual entertainment "music" you can see on most tv shows. :)

I still apreciate Nina Hagen's 2 first albums, with her band Spliff. Maybe more for linguistic reasons. And her voice too. And then I lost sight of her, except for maybe a famous TV scandal a very long time ago. :)


Thomas Altmann wrote:Yes, as a musician you often run into bizarre situations. I wonder whether that could also have happened to me in a place like New York (apart from the fact that there would be at least 10 other percussionists who would get the call before me). But I read sone reports of famous American studio drummers like Jeff Porcaro (in the Modern Drummer magazine) which suggest that you must be ready for all kinds of funny stuff, anywhere. And the longer you are active, the more stories you can tell. I believe that a musician experiences more in each one year than the average 9-5 employee in 45 years. And that's also great - if you are open enough.


Yes, we all have such anecdotes - which mostly bother our relatives, because they know them by heart, and interest only other musicians. :)

But I'm drifting a little bit off-topic... :)
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:05 pm

@Beatnik:

I did my best to listen to the examples you posted, using only my laptop speakers.

1. Beastie Boys: There are bongos and congas added to the regular drum set. You can take this bongo part as a basis for an alternative way to accompany backbeat-oriented music, alternative to the drumset rhythm adaptation I mentioned earlier. Note that it reflects the rhythmic character of the martillo or the "a caballo" conga rhythm, both of which derive from an Afro-Cuban mula part for Makuta. The percussionist did not use the martillo technique, however. You can do this, it's done quite often, and it's absolutely O.K. - for this type of music. Can you hear that the drumset player has a completely different time concept? He plays untight, very much laid-back /behind the beat. He might even be dragging here and there. It is hard to play with somebody like him - especially if you're coming from Cuban music, where almost everybody plays on top of the beat, sometimes even to the extent of rushing the tempo.

2. Yo La Tengo: That's a cool track. Personally, I wouldn't buy the record; but I think it's really good, different, special. The time is very tight and intense throughout the whole piece. The bongos are played with a drumset approach, and they are playing alone for a long period, substituting the drumset. As far as I could hear, they are played very close to the rim, including the hembra, and the macho is tuned much lower than in Salsa or Son. They almost sound like some middle-eastern drums. (Once I had to accompany a belly dancer, and I did the same thing, using bongos.) Whether the guy knows what he's doing or not: it is creative, it fits the tune perfectly, and not only that; it actually makes the tune. The percussion is so dominant that it colors the whole song. It plays a major, constitutive role.
If you are a permanent member of the band, you are free to experiment and bring anything to the music that comes to your mind. If you are a hired studio percussionist, it takes some cojones to do something like this, unless you are encouraged to play in this way. Every studio musician dreams of an opportunity to shine, to contribute his personal style to a given piece of music, and to make his part integral to the song, ultimately making it become a hit. In reality, such opportunities are rare, and it is often wiser to be more adaptive and choose your spots carefully and musically.

3. Traffic: This is an easy one. No bongos involved. I could hear only congas. I must confess, however, that I jumped on after listening for 1 or 2 minutes. Zero bongos.
The set drummer is very good. Perhaps Jim Gordon, one of my favorite rock drummers. I don't know whether he's still alive, somewhere in a jail ...

I hope this helped you -

Greetings,
Thomas
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Chtimulato » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:14 pm

The drummer on the Traffic tune is Jim Gordon, indeed. https://www.discogs.com/Traffic-The-Low-Spark-Of-High-Heeled-Boys/master/69040

And the conguero is Reebob Kwaku Baah, who also played with a German band called Can, and then... with Billy Cobham.
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:22 pm

The drummer on the Traffic tune is Jim Gordon, indeed.


So I remembered it correctly ... I think he replaced Jim Capaldi often for recordings.

except for country music


...

i like country music ... :oops:

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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Chtimulato » Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:28 am

Thomas Altmann wrote:
i like country music ... :oops: Thomas


De gustibus etc. :)
No worries, we both live in a free country. :)
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Beatnik07 » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:27 am

Thomas Altmann wrote:@Beatnik:

I did my best to listen to the examples you posted, using only my laptop speakers.

1. Beastie Boys: There are bongos and congas added to the regular drum set. You can take this bongo part as a basis for an alternative way to accompany backbeat-oriented music, alternative to the drumset rhythm adaptation I mentioned earlier. Note that it reflects the rhythmic character of the martillo or the "a caballo" conga rhythm, both of which derive from an Afro-Cuban mula part for Makuta. The percussionist did not use the martillo technique, however. You can do this, it's done quite often, and it's absolutely O.K. - for this type of music. Can you hear that the drumset player has a completely different time concept? He plays untight, very much laid-back /behind the beat. He might even be dragging here and there. It is hard to play with somebody like him - especially if you're coming from Cuban music, where almost everybody plays on top of the beat, sometimes even to the extent of rushing the tempo.

2. Yo La Tengo: That's a cool track. Personally, I wouldn't buy the record; but I think it's really good, different, special. The time is very tight and intense throughout the whole piece. The bongos are played with a drumset approach, and they are playing alone for a long period, substituting the drumset. As far as I could hear, they are played very close to the rim, including the hembra, and the macho is tuned much lower than in Salsa or Son. They almost sound like some middle-eastern drums. (Once I had to accompany a belly dancer, and I did the same thing, using bongos.) Whether the guy knows what he's doing or not: it is creative, it fits the tune perfectly, and not only that; it actually makes the tune. The percussion is so dominant that it colors the whole song. It plays a major, constitutive role.
If you are a permanent member of the band, you are free to experiment and bring anything to the music that comes to your mind. If you are a hired studio percussionist, it takes some cojones to do something like this, unless you are encouraged to play in this way. Every studio musician dreams of an opportunity to shine, to contribute his personal style to a given piece of music, and to make his part integral to the song, ultimately making it become a hit. In reality, such opportunities are rare, and it is often wiser to be more adaptive and choose your spots carefully and musically.

3. Traffic: This is an easy one. No bongos involved. I could hear only congas. I must confess, however, that I jumped on after listening for 1 or 2 minutes. Zero bongos.
The set drummer is very good. Perhaps Jim Gordon, one of my favorite rock drummers. I don't know whether he's still alive, somewhere in a jail ...

I hope this helped you -

Greetings,
Thomas


Thanks Thomas !
This feedback of yours is an enriching and educating opportunity for me.

I don't intend on publishing in this thread an endless and tiresome stream of non-salsa bongos music videos, but here is another one, again showing the versatility of bongos:

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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Thomas Altmann » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:24 pm

Hi Beatnik,

I'm glad that you found my comments useful. I don't know how long my experience will still be of value and validity for beginning percussionists. Naturally, I don't have any idea how old you are.

Another historic work incorporating bongos in a rock context is The Incredible Bongo Band. You may want to check that out. It's from the early 1970's.

Greetings,
Thomas
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Beatnik07 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:03 pm

Another case of non latino bongos playing. Not sure I personally relate to this style of playing or the bongos own sounding. But the dexterity/skills of the player is impressive:
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Chtimulato » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:23 pm

Great velocity, for sure. If you listen carefully, you will notice that he plays variations of the martillo... :)
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Re: Opening up: playing bongos to other forms of music

Postby Beatnik07 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:29 pm

Chtimulato wrote:Great velocity, for sure. If you listen carefully, you will notice that he plays variations of the martillo... :)

Hard to tell for me ... for one thing he plays really fast, and also I can't readily recognize the usual "sound pattern" of the martillo...
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