Buenos Dias

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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:13 pm

Sorry if I should disturb the general consent here, but here are my 2 cents:

I used goat skin on my macho for at least 2 years or longer. Played them in public at an average of perhaps once a month, meanwhile practicing and giving lessons with it once a week minimum, and I always tuned it up and down. I had a spare drum head with me all the time, wondering why the goat head never broke. Yes, it was super thin, and on a 7-inch macho it didn't deliver my favorite sound (which is why I replaced it). The macho is generally tuned so high that it has no chance to ring. I wouldn't recommend such a thin skin for the hembra, no matter what kind of animal it had covered before.

The skin that I have on my macho now is - goat! Only a bit thicker. Great penetrating sound, fast attack. Ideal for a bongó macho. At least for my taste.

As to calf skin ... early LP bongos (around 1980) were regularly equipped with kip hide. Isn't that the same as calf skin? The early LP bongos were bulky and heavy, but the sound was just fine.

Thomas
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:59 pm

Sorry if I should disturb the general consent here, but here are my 2 cents:

I used goat skin on my macho for at least 2 years or longer. Played them in public at an average of perhaps once a month, meanwhile practicing and giving lessons with it once a week minimum, and I always tuned it up and down. I had a spare drum head with me all the time, wondering why the goat head never broke. Yes, it was super thin, and on a 7-inch macho it didn't deliver my favorite sound (which is why I replaced it). The macho is generally tuned so high that it has no chance to ring. I wouldn't recommend such a thin skin for the hembra, no matter what kind of animal it had covered before.

The skin that I have on my macho now is - goat! Only a bit thicker. Great penetrating sound, fast attack. Ideal for a bongó macho. At least for my taste.

As to calf skin ... early LP bongos (around 1980) were regularly equipped with kip hide. Isn't that the same as calf skin? The early LP bongos were bulky and heavy, but the sound was just fine.

Thomas

P.S.: I had to post this one twice because it didn't appear upon my first try.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby mpags » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:14 pm

Thanks for sharing your perspective Thomas. Yes, kip is calf skin. Sadly, Rhythm Traders doe not have mule or horse. But they are advertising calf skin. That may be my backup plan if I can´t find mule or horse.

The goat skin I tried was so thin that I could see the rim through it almost. I don´t know how else to describe the tone except as ringy. I agree about the fast attack. Maybe if I can find a little thicker a skin, it would sound better. Rhythm Traders does show goat skins on their website and they are not expensive. When I go there I will see what the thickness is and maybe pick one up as an experiment.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby mpags » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:18 am

There seems to be some problem dispaying Thomas´s posts. They keep disappearing...
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Juaort » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:46 am

I’ve tried Calf and it’s good. It was used a lot in the past. I do like the sound of Calf skins on the Macho and currently have a couple of sets with Calf skins on them. I gravitated to the horse skins just cause they sound crispier and sharper than the Calf. But that’s just me anyway.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Juaort » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:52 am

The site has been a bit glitchy at times, so that’s why we may not see Thomas posts. It happened to me about a month ago as well. But KIP skins were also very popular. There was a place in Times Square that sold them years ago. The gentleman that sold them used to make percussion instruments cases. Like the original LP Palisades Park Bongo Cases or the LP Timbales cases they sold.

I also gave an LP Gen3 that has a Deer Skin on the Macho. It’s also very good for the Macho.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:50 am

Short OT: I know it's nothing personal if my post disappears twice in a row. It seems to drop into the gap between two pages. Even at the risk of leaving a bad impression on Michael, I must say that recently, since about a year, this site is obviously in the need of an update. It's a bit like digital Havana. A stubborn few insist on staying in a city of ruins, while an essential share of members (including the admins) has left for FB-country. The problem is that there's a bunch of nerds constantly "improving" the internet (for the better or the worse), so that everybody who participates in the system has to keep pace with this development. This means WORK, work without recompensation.

Let's see what happens. For those who are following the thread, here's my original post again:

Sorry if I should disturb the general consent here, but here are my 2 cents:

I used goat skin on my macho for at least 2 years or longer. Played them in public at an average of perhaps once a month, meanwhile practicing and giving lessons with it once a week minimum, and I always tuned it up and down. I had a spare drum head with me all the time, wondering why the goat head never broke. Yes, it was super thin, and on a 7-inch macho it didn't deliver my favorite sound (which is why I replaced it). The macho is generally tuned so high that it has no chance to ring. I wouldn't recommend such a thin skin for the hembra, no matter what kind of animal it had covered before.

The skin that I have on my macho now is - goat! Only a bit thicker. Great penetrating sound, fast attack. Ideal for a bongó macho. At least for my taste.

As to calf skin ... early LP bongos (around 1980) were regularly equipped with kip hide. Isn't that the same as calf skin? The early LP bongos were bulky and heavy, but the sound was just fine.


Thomas
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:47 am

kip hide. Isn't that the same as calf skin?


Yes, kip is a "baby calf".
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/kip

Someone told me (or did I read on this forum?) that it's a more or less dead-born calf, so its skin could be something close to vellum, like parchment. But I could be wrong.

And yes, this forum is bugging sometimes. I tried in vain to read Thomas' contribution yesterday, and discovered it only today.

But I have not enough knowledge to diagnose why.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:28 pm

@Chtimulato:

The kip hides on the early LP bongos were actually thicker than the ones used as batter heads for snare drums, timpani, or even bass drums.

The fine and thin "slunk" heads from unborn calves (meaning the mother cow had been slaughtered in the state of pregnancy) were used for the resonance or snare heads on the bottom of a snare drum.

Yes, it feels uncomfortable to realize what carnivores do to their victims.

Thomas
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby mpags » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:33 pm

Interesting discussion! And, yes, I am aware that these forums can get glitchy. As a newbie, I am just soaking in the knowledge right now and having a lot of fun. IN some ways, I´m sure that my previous musical background is helpful, at least to understand rhythms. The coordination is a little slower and my left hand doesn´t have the same power and dexterity as my right (right hand dominant). But, overall I am very pleased at the progress.

What are some of the FB resources you mention Thomas?
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:51 pm

mpags wrote:As a newbie, I am just soaking in the knowledge right now and having a lot of fun. IN some ways, I´m sure that my previous musical background is helpful, at least to understand rhythms. The coordination is a little slower and my left hand doesn´t have the same power and dexterity as my right (right hand dominant). But, overall I am very pleased at the progress.


Sounds good, I'm glad to read that. I can feel with you because I am just about to start something new, too. When in New York (2009?), I met John Amira and took some lessons in Vodou drumming with him. For 12 years, my notes and his notations slumbered in a file folder - until now. I almost have to re-condition myself technically, but I enjoy it immensely. It's like filling up a gap in rhythmic concepts.

mpags wrote:What are some of the FB resources you mention Thomas?


I hope you excuse me for not really being a Facebook expert. I came across a vintage conga drum-, and/or conga drum repairing site. Paolo Castagnoli is on it; he used to be active on this forum before. David Peñalosa used to have his own FB-site ("Unlocking the Clave" or so), but I can't find it anymore. He earned his nickname "Dr. Clave", and we had great discussions here. Our member Jorge gave us a link to a FB-site on rumba in NYC, but Jorge still keeps posting actively on CongaPlace. Admittedly not on Facebook was Mark Sanders (http://fidelseyeglasses.blogspot.com), but this blog seems to be dormant, too. @Jorge: How is Barry Cox? His blog http://esquinarumbera.blogspot.com has been sleeping for years. A year ago I tried to contact Geordie (http://rumbainstruments.blogspot.com), but he did not respond, and his blog is practically dead. Marcelo alias ABAKUA is one of the administrators of CongaPlace, and I haven't read of him in years. Same for Laurent Lamy, also an administrator. Jorge Ginorio (https://jorgeginorio.com/) had once contributed many informative posts here. One of this group's moderators, Johnny Conga, is a veteran professional, a real percussion expert, and obviously a top-notch teacher; but he has confined himself to advertising his (online) lessons here. I learned a lot from his YouTube clips alone. What is OLSONGO doing? So many people who had once been sharing their knowledge on CongaPlace, always ready for discussions, have vanished somewhere, although they are still listed as members, and I do miss them.

It could also very well be that the time for blogs, internet forums and discussion groups is in fact over. Perhaps people are just busy enough running their business and their private lives. Maybe the topics on a CongaPlace are no longer of interest for them. But I know there exists a vast Facebook network (which I'm no part of), and then there is Instagram and probably a dozen of other social media (which I'm not aware of) that are certainly time-consuming enough. It's more a suspicion that this is where a lot of communication is happening now.

I may not have answered your question, but that's why I feel that this forum has slowly been deserted over the time. Sorry for branching off topic.

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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:15 pm

The coordination is a little slower and my left hand doesn´t have the same power and dexterity as my right (right hand dominant)


This is not dramatic. You just need to pratice (so do we all, anyhow... :) ) Tata Güines and then Changuito developed a hand movement called "la mano secreta", which allows you to develop your weak hand.
You can find it here :



I try to pratice it with both hands.

I talked about this movie the other day :



And Changuito got his own channel :



Re: Facebook, I know most of the guys Thomas mentionned : Paolo Castagnoli, Mark Sanders, Marcelo Malovini (Abakuá), Laurent Lamy and Johnny Conga. Most of them run one or several Facebook pages. They are called "pages",not "sites". And don't confuse an account with a page, guys. Anyone can create a Facebook account, you just need to type a phone numer or an e-mail address and find a password. And then send friend requests ("friends" = contacts, people you know, even if it's only virtually), and accept or refuse others' friend requests.
A page is like a forum. It's thematic (Congueros in Germany, Bongoseros of Southern France, Stamps collectors from Easter Belgium, your daughter's basket ball team, etc.). Anybody can create a page, becoming then admin and having to manage it.
Laurent Lamy (whom I happen to know rather well) recently closed his page (but not his account) because he was tired of running it. And the above mentionnend guys are all members of several pages.
I give you a few links of pages where I'm member too (i.e. you have either to be invited by someone, or make a member request).

Vintage conga drums, run by forum member King Conga : https://www.facebook.com/groups/657966647623440/ ;

Conga drums and percussion : https://www.facebook.com/groups/157599624373869/ and Bongos and bongoceros https://www.facebook.com/groups/545311175479692/, both run by Michael Pluznick, also forum member here I believe ;

Percussion collectors group : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1840332249446968/ ;

Sonoc: Sonoridad Cubana : https://www.facebook.com/groups/871138056655884/ ;

Conga Restoration Group - in memoriam Marcus Ruiz :https://www.facebook.com/groups/1003703386355137/ (Marcus Riuz was a conga builder whom some of us used to know, and who passed away a few years ago) ;

El Quinto Cubano : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2065642660203341/ and Solos.. Just Conga Solos. : https://www.facebook.com/groups/661264124673737/, both run by Paolo Castagnoli ;

And yours truly has the privilege to be one of the admins on the European Conga Community page : https://www.facebook.com/groups/850541078350190/

There are many, many others, but this are already much (too much) for me.

If it inspires you... :)
Last edited by Chtimulato on Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Chtimulato » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:30 pm

And BTW, though I often use Facebook, I still appreciate this forum. :)
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:50 pm

Thanks for your basic introduction re Facebook, Chtimulato. In fact I might be the only guy here who needed it. I've had an aversion against FB (and the likes) from the first moment it turned up. Hence my persistent ignorance.

TA
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Re: Buenos Dias

Postby mpags » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:11 pm

Thanks to both of you for the info and resources. Much of it is conga related so, I´ll have to give some thought on how to adapt it to bongó.

One thing I have been doing to develop the left hand is to play a slow alternating pattern and just focusing on getting the same crisp clear note and volume with my left hand as with my right. I have to be conscious of my left hand not creeping into the middle of the head. It has a tendency to do that where my right almost unconsciously seems to just find the right spot. Then there are a couple of other simple patterns that I do the same with. Obviously, practice is the key! But the progress I´ve made in a fairly short time has been very encouraging and fun.

On a side note, one of the reasons for learning bongó is to be able to play simple but tasteful rhythms while performing vocally with the project with a guitarist and bass player. Lol! That is going to take practice keeping it balanced. I find if I get too wrapped up in the vocal, I lose the pattern and a sense of where the 1 is. If I go the other way and focus too tightly on the pattern and the 1, I start losing the vocal. I spent a couple of hours this afternoon on 2 jazz pieces and 2 boleros. Plenty to work on!! :shock: :D
Last edited by mpags on Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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