Conga Drum History - One Viewpoint - Conga Drum History (Warden)

Let's discuss about the origin and history of this beautiful instrument...

Postby Berimbau » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:53 pm

This board used to be a really GREAT place to learn something new or to share what you might already know. Everyone from novice players to folks with long musical careers could feel welcome here. There are MANY knowledgeable posters here such as David, Thomas, JC, Facundo, and Abakua who are always encouraging and have something interesting to say.
Yet these days I seldom come here anymore as the board has become plagued by too many non-musical agendas and the ever ignorant "Dr" Z. In my opinion, the fact-free, egotistical argumentative nature of his posts only cheapen this board and scare off any real dialog here. Now I'm not much for censorship but the moderators of this board would do wise to boot this "honoris causa" off of here for good and delete ANY and ALL non-relavent, non-musical posts from ANYONE.........including me!!! Then maybe we could go back to an intelligent conversation about Congas, percussion, and Afro-Cuban/Brasilian music. Isn't that what this board was suppossed to be about?


Respectfully,



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Postby Facundo » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:59 pm

zaragenca wrote:First of all you have not jurisdiction to say who I'm in the Yorubas field becouse you don't know me personally neither I know you personally,ok...I could tell you who was 'Polo' Godmother in Ocha since you mentioned him,(and I know how it was called the people which were comming from his Ocha/House line..do you know that name?....since you have been around him.. And there are a lot of people which became Oriates in the U.S.A.,..becouse there were notbody else older, the olders Oriates were in Cuba and died in Cuba,and as I said before many times I HAVE WITNESSED THEM CORRECTING EVERY ONE INCLUDING BATALEROS....let me finished with you in relation to the Cuban side and I would get in to the African later...but I want you to answer my pending questions.Dr. Zaragemca

Z,

Polo's line is called culo verde (green ass), because he came from Mantanza to Havana and was considered to be a "country boy". Never the less, he was a well recognized Oriate in Cuba as were the others that I mentioned! As an Oluo I have "every right" to say who you are not inside of Ocha! You can put on a front to others on this list but not with me. The fact the you were Cuban does not give you the right to say things that are incorrect nor to even comment as if you were an insider dispite being Cuban and that the fact that your mother or others in your family were Olorisha. It is more than clear that you are not a crowed head and cetainly not an insider. The fact that you "may have seen them correcting alanya" is highly questionable. However, Olubata question the correctness of what is being played in terms of their actual articulation, period.

You are right many came to the US and functioned as Oriates but were never seated as such in Cuba. Again, that was not the case with those that I mentioned which is why I mentioned them! Now for your sources on African bata?

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Postby JohnnyConga » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:57 pm

Berimbau and others here..as a Moderator, I am caught in between many personalities with many fervent opinions...some good some bad....First rule of LAW on this site should be RESPECT for one another, no matter how much they know or how little they may know... I will be the first to admit , even I am guilty of getting caught up in the 'discussions/arguements"....with individuals at this forum, and i have been here over 6 years now, and many have come and gone.....to "rid" the forum of ANY individual is not my job...I don't do that...though I can censor.....which i have done only twice in the 6 years, and that was because of "requests" made my members of this forum.....I didn't make the rules here and dont know what they are except for what I mentioned above....this is still a GREAT forum with many "passionate" individuals that share a common bond.....THE DRUM!.....let's see if we can keep it like that, and continue to grow with one another...now Dr. Z is something else.....what to do? what to do?.....I kinda get the feeling he is not very good at expressing himself in the english language where we really can get the gist of things he talks about, but I could be wrong.....time will tell.....Berimbau, come on back Bro!....."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D
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Postby ABAKUA » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:10 am

I agree with Berimbau and JC on several points.
I have removed the self proclaimed 'doctor' previously for his arrogance and lack of respect to members. Even the boards head administrator was happy to keep him off, it was out of the benefit of another chance that I allowed him to rejoin under a new account.
However and this applies to everyone, anyone found taunting, insulting or disrespecting a fellow user of this board will be warned, if that fails, their account will be suspended.
Using this board is a privelidge, not a right.
Respect your fellow brother of the drum. Like styles, opinions will vary.

And for the record, Gerry, estas patinando en hielo muy fino. Ive already had several complaints encontra ti y tus mensajes aqui. Please adjust your 'online attitude'.
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Postby Facundo » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:03 pm

Abakua, Johnny C and B,

Let me also offer my apologies to all the list members for extending the dialogue way past were it needed to go. I just got tired of reading Z's statements that most often go unchallenged.

Best regards to all,
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Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:51 pm

Hi folks,
I’d like to point out that when I first joined this forum, I insulted Mr. Zaragenca (everybody knows he’s not any kind of Dr., right?) on several occasions in fits of frustration. More recently, I have been known to drift into sarcasm in discourse with Congamyk, with an intermittent touch of snottyness too (thank god you can edit your posts here!). I think the reason I have not been taken to task by the esteemed moderators is due to the fact that I’ve been correct in my points. :)

On the other hand, over a period of several years I directly criticized conventions of writing and counting clave-based music in the Yahoo Latinjazz forum. In that case, I was again correct ( :) ), yet a tremendous amount of abuse was heaped upon me by several forum members. I believe this abuse was tolerated because I was contradicting the conventional wisdom.

I don’t think that someone should be removed from a forum because they are ignorant, close-minded, or overly self-important.

Berimbau, I think that Zaragenca used to amuse you. As the song says: “The Thrill is Gone”. Facundo, I understand your frustration. After several back and forths with Z, I have often said to myself “why am I doing this?” I have enjoyed your posts Facundo. I always learn something.

I think a more proper tactic is to ignore crackpot posts, rather than to remove the crackpot poster. Actual personal insults is the LINE, right?
-Dr. Clave




Edited By davidpenalosa on 1185381390
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:22 pm

Facundo wrote:Abakua, Johnny C and B,

Let me also offer my apologies to all the list members for extending the dialogue way past were it needed to go. I just got tired of reading Z's statements that most often go unchallenged.

Best regards to all,
Facundo

Not unchallenged............ignored is a better word, I don't think many people take his nearly uninteligable posts seriously, at least I don't anymore......................G!
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Postby zaragenca » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:22 pm

Well brother Facundo you see,…you weren’t told the true in relation of the name.’Los Culos Verdes’ (The Green Ass), to the Ocha/line which was started by ‘Polo’ Gonzales…The Godmother of ‘Polo’ (Osha Weye), in Matanzas was Celestina Torriente,he came to Habana arriving in the Ocha /House ‘La Pimienta’ of Jose ‘Pata de palo’ Urquiola…after arriving to Habana he himself, ‘Polo,’ set up the whole bad situation for which the name ‘Los Culos Verde’ was set up to his Ocha/House Line and the situation which ultimately make him to get out of Cuba and in the U.S.A….did you want me to continue with all the details of ‘Polo’ Gonzalez Story?...In relation to Berimbau when he get louse in his debates and very carry on,and don't say nothing to him so I don't pay attention to that..Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby 109-1176549166 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:21 pm

davidpenalosa wrote:I think a more proper tactic is to ignore crackpot posts, rather than to remove the crackpot poster.

David, :)

I totally agree with you!

Without passing judgement on anyone in this forum, crackpot posters have psychological problems beyond their control and tend to live in a world of their own. No amount of objective logic will ever convince them about the merit(s) of your arguments.

And then there are the teasers who intentionally want to get you mad, just for the thrill of it.

Thus, to allow yourself to become frustrated, even angry, by a crackpot or a teaser and resort to sarcasm and insults, IMO, just lets you fall into his/her trap. Besides you never know if he/she is actually having a blast and relishing in the background at your "self-destruction".

Therefore, like you said, the best antidote to crackpot posts and posters is not to give them the "rope" or attention they want and need to keep on going with their deluded argumentation. :;): Oftentimes, it's best to end any debate with them by simply agreeing to disagree.

With overly self-important posters, the best antidote, IMO, is simply (through the use of logic and syllogistic reasoning) to corner them into self-contradiction and, even better, make them aware of it so as to reduce them into inevitable silence. :;):




Edited By mjtuazon on 1185314135
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Postby zaragenca » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:38 pm

I did started in this posting talking about the subject,(Drums),I made a comment in relation to an Bata/article, and the posting was taken in a different direction which I didn't have to back off becouse I knew the subject also,and as result my questions never got answered,and I always answer the questions of the forum/members in relation to percussion becouse I HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO IT.Thanks Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:19 pm

zaragenca wrote:I always answer the questions of the forum/members in relation to percussion becouse I HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO IT.Thanks Dr. Zaragemca

..............and the humility
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Postby Facundo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:28 pm

David,Bongosnotbomba & B,

Thanks for your comments. All points were well made.

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Re: Conga Drum History - One Viewpoint - Conga Drum History (War

Postby Ernesto Pediangco » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:04 pm

An excellent history ! One could also include that our common use of barrel stave congas, came from actual barrels of differing shapes & sizes used throught Europe and its colonial foot holds in the new world. Barrels were the storage ontainers of its era and easily adapted as drums. The Puerto Rican Barrel Drums / used for playing Bomba rhythms, are still directly built from barrels. The Dominican tambpra is also commonly using a barrel size that was commonly used in the colonies. Bareels used for Rum, Molosses, Nails, Grain, Spices etc. But since barrel coopers are less common these days, drum builders have not fully incorporated some detai;s from coopers that would in fact build better drums. Also...durring the pre industrialized era of the U.S.A. mant sewer & water main pipes used underground, were made from wood stave pipe sectins fitted togeather. These staves used no glue ! They did have a " V " shaped tongue & groove to loch the staves in position & had a thick metal wire banding the ends & spilaling down the sections to the other end of the wood pipe sections. The natural swelling of the wood , made the drums water proof ( many were treated w/ creosote that smells like moth balls )and lasted 90 years or more in the ground and can still be found to be in near new condition. The trick was tongue in groove staves and sealing the wood so it would not rot in the ground..
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