Conga Drum History - One Viewpoint - Conga Drum History (Warden)

Let's discuss about the origin and history of this beautiful instrument...

Postby congamyk » Mon May 28, 2007 3:23 pm

A well written expose of the evolution of the congas.

Conga Drum History (Warden)
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Postby JohnnyConga » Mon May 28, 2007 7:57 pm

THANKS MIKE ..great info..."JC" Johnny Conga...
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:53 pm

agian he has a lot misconceptions.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:56 pm

again he has a lot misconceptions for not talking with the people which knows,(including me with have been doing research in this since I was born in Cuba).I would point ouy where he is right,and where he has misconceptions,or misinformation.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:53 pm

Zaragemca,
If you have some disagreements with Nolan Warden's article, why don't you lay out your argument, backed-up with some data?
-David
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Postby zaragenca » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:12 pm

You know that I always do that ,but I have to find my way to do it diferently,I coud n't edit.,they remove my cookies,and log me out when I'm doing the response.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:16 pm

Dr. Z u sound like a "victim" here...I too would also like to hear your arguement with data also...Just to say because "I'm Cuban and was born there" is not enough...I know TOO many Cubans born there that don't know anything about Cuban drumming and it's history...."JC" Johnny Conga... :D
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:01 pm

zaragenca wrote:again he has a lot misconceptions for not talking with the people which knows,(including me with have been doing research in this since I was born in Cuba).I would point ouy where he is right,and where he has misconceptions,or misinformation.Dr. Zaragemca

Nolan warden has a very extensive bibliography at the end of his well written paper.

He has also made trips to Cuba as part of his research. I assumed he talked to people that know there.

Nolan is also a graduate of Berklee. I think he has solid credentials, and a well documented research paper.

There appears to me nothing wrong with his research or his paper.
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Postby burke » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:45 pm

As a curator and archivist I too am a big fan of references (both primary and secondary source - primary always trumps secondary).
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Postby zaragenca » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:33 pm

First of all I have to recognized the interes of Nolan Warden in relation of the Afrocuban Percussion and the fact that many misconceptions have been recycling from wrong calculations without paying attention to the Cuba history…He Initialy said that talking with authority in the subject is hard to find…I have been talking and teaching this subject for 17 years, right here in the U.S.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby zaragenca » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:48 pm

He said, ’In the early to mid- 1900,Cuban rhythms were picked up and popularized by the U.S. media’…Dr.Zaragemca said,..The Orquestras Tipicas and military bands from Cuba have been performing in Key West,New Orleans,New Jersey,New York,Veracruz,Brasil,Colombia,etc.,Since 1824,again,..SINCE 1824…During the, 10 years of wars of Cuba against Spain,(1868-1878),a lot of Cuban musicians and band directors went to exile taking the Cuban rhythma and music to ,Mexico,U.S.,Europe,and South Ammerica…And there have always been an immigration to Cuba of artist from Europe,so the Cuban music and rhythms were known around the world long, long time before 1900.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby zaragenca » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:09 pm

He made some reference to Dr. Fernando Ortiz…..Dr Zaragemca say…’With absolutely recognition for Ortiz’s afforts in conducting these studies,… a lot of scholars which followed the research find out and, he, himself,(Ortiz), recognized that he was wrong in many of his early writing because the lack of clear understanding of the subject...I do agree in what Nolan Warden said in reference of the name of Conga in the U.S.,and the original name of Tumbadora in Cuba,and that ‘Conga’ is the specific groups which play in Cuba representing the,(barrios),during the Carnivals,also that Conga is a reference to a female subject of the Bantu Civilization’….to be continued...Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:17 pm

Zaragemca,
I'm sorry, but I've read writings by both you and Nolan Warden and I find Warden to be the better scholar by far. He backs up his material with data and exhibits an intellectual rigor. He cites his sources and he has to defend his work in front of other scholars.

The fact that he did not talk with you seems like a weak critique of his work. Do you have any concrete disagreements with his paper that you can present to us?
-david
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:25 pm

zaragenca wrote:He said, ’In the early to mid- 1900,Cuban rhythms were picked up and popularized by the U.S. media’…Dr.Zaragemca said,..The Orquestras Tipicas and military bands from Cuba have been performing in Key West,New Orleans,New Jersey,New York,Veracruz,Brasil,Colombia,etc.,Since 1824,again,..SINCE 1824

These bands you mentioned may have been playing in America, however there is no contradiction with what Nolan says.
He says the rhythms were popularized by the American media in the early 1900.
Those bands and artists may have been playing in US since 1824, but that does not mean cuban rhythms were popularized by the media as a consequence.
I see no misconception. These are entirely two different subjects.




Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1182544061
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Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:45 pm

zaragenca wrote:He made some reference to Dr. Fernando Ortiz…..Dr Zaragemca say…’With absolutely recognition for Ortiz’s afforts in conducting these studies,… a lot of scholars which followed the research find out and, he, himself,(Ortiz), recognized that he was wrong in many of his early writing because the lack of clear understanding of the subject..

It is quite possible that Ortiz may have been wrong in some of his early writings. The source in Warden's end notes was written in 1952 was 17 years beofre Ortiz's death, indicating it to be one of his later writings, as he was 71 when he wrote it.
Ortiz's writings are only quoted in regards to possible origins of the word conga and tumbadora. Neither author (Warden or Ortiz) comes to any precise conlcusion or determination , which is quite clearly stated by Nolan warden.
As the source quoted is not from an early writing and is merely speculation, and stated as such, I can see no reason to be prejudiced against Nolan's paper from their inclusion.
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