Giraldo Rodriguez-Afro Tambores Bata - by Tomas Altmann

[zaragenca]

The fact is that in real Benin/City,(The one located at the Southwest of Ile/Efe,not the actual Benin territory),the drummers have to belong to the specific society which dedicated to do those ceremonies and it was hereditary,(from father to son), they only play inside the Palace,which was the reason that other poeple in Africa didn't know anything about the Batas.(Everything brake down with the final british invation of Benin/City in 1898 and the ransake of everything of value),..This is a relative modern picture when people in Nigeria and Cuba started getting grasp of how to make and play some bata,(which is why the one in the picture are not build for people which really knew how to make them),....(in relation to the comment this person made),of course is somebody is a Muslim,he couldn't be playing for the Yorubas religion anyway, they are playing those drums for the shows,as many people are doing somewhere else,after the Bata became famouse since the late 1930's and 40's.,...but as I always said the knowledge of the details is the main factor,(just by observing them I know they arenot Yorubas).Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1156965792

[JohnnyConga]

Sorry David I don't remember where I pulled the photo from or if it was given to me , just had it in my files...."JC" Johnny Conga...

[Berimbau]

Hey JC!
Those African tubs look like the bata found in a few terreiros in Northeastern Brasil. I think that the Fon influence is still quite evident there.


Saludos,


Berimbau

[guarachon63]

To me it looks like a scan from a CD booklet, David you might want to check that "Yoruba Drums of Benin, West Africa" CD of yours...

[EDIT:]

Actually I think the photo is from that CD, see this article at batadrums.com

Also a nice link to a discography with sound files.

saludos



Edited By guarachon63 on 1156974655

[niallgregory]

Hey JC!
Those African tubs look like the bata found in a few terreiros in Northeastern Brasil. I think that the Fon influence is still quite evident there.


Saludos,


Berimbau

Hi Berimbau .

I have some great footage of an umbanda ceremony from northern Brazil where there are 3 atabaques and a guy playing a drum on a stand that is very Bata like .Do you know anything about bata in Brasil .I have heard that they are still used in some Shango houses in Recife .Seems to be a mystery , nothing written about it at all ?

[Thomas Altmann]

The photo is taken from: "Kultische Trommelmusik der Yoruba in der Volksrepublik Benin. - Bata-Sango und Bata-Egungun in den Städten Pobè und Sakété - " by Marcos Branda-Lacerda. It's an ethnomusicological publication in German language, probably derived from a doctoral dissertation. I have a photocopy of this book, and although it is written in German, I have not been able to read more than three words in conjunction in it.

Greetings,

Thomas



Edited By Thomas Altmann on 1156984601

[OLSONGO]

Berimbau I was looking back on the posts and spoted the one with the Mark Sanders link, I met him on a Gato Barbieri Tour. I was wondering what had happened to him. Yes those shekeres are complex, had the fortune to have one of them in my hands.

Paz OLSONGO

[davidpenalosa]

.. is somebody is a Muslim,he couldn't be playing for the Yorubas religion anyway, they are playing those drums for the shows,as many people are doing somewhere else,after the Bata became famouse since the late 1930's and 40's.,...but as I always said the knowledge of the details is the main factor,(just by observing them I know they arenot Yorubas).

In Nigeria at least one major bata clan did indeed convert to Islam and is still hired by believers to play for Egungun ceremonies.

The public debut of the bata in Cuba has no relevence in Africa, where the drums have long been used in public.

Those indeed are Yoruba from Benin in the photo. Thomas identified the book: "Kultische Trommelmusik der Yoruba in der Volksrepublik Benin. - Bata-Sango und Bata-Egungun in den Städten Pobè und Sakété - " by Marcos Branda-Lacerda.

For anyone interested in hearing African bata, there are several CDs available out there. I'm aware of one disertation in-progress that compares the African and Cuban bata systems, although I'm not sure if it will include a comprehensive comparison of the rhythms.
-David

[Berimbau]

Well I may be getting a little off topic to answer these questions but it seems that where it's going anyway. Among the compounded tragedies of Katrina was the complete loss of my 25 years plus fieldwork. I had many photos of Brasilian bata being made, played, and even recordings from one terreiro in Olinda. Although the Pai de Santo gave me permission to do so, many in attendence were less than thrilled to have an anthropologist record their sacred events.
It seems that there are two types of bata in Brasil, each unlike their Cuban cousins in many organological features. José Jorge Carvalho wrote a short preliminary piece on Brasilian bata in the 1970's which was published in the Review of Ethnology, of course I no longer have the article or citation. His dissertations are available through inter-library loan and are as follows:

Studies of Afro-Brazilian Cults: A Critical and Historical Review of the Main Trends of Thought. Master’s dissertation, The Queen’s University of Belfast, 1978.

Ritual and Music of the Sango [Xangô] Cults of Recife, Brazil. Doctoral thesis, The Queen’s University of Belfast, 1984.

Mark Sanders is just fine living and playing in NYC, running a weight loss program that I need to be in, and selling Cuban artifacts on E-Bay as Silverspurr.



Saludos,



Berimbau

[niallgregory]

Thanks berimbau .Belfast is just up the road from me .Gonna get in touch with them about it .What was the music like that you seen and heard .Hope im not getting to much off topic with this ?

[zaragenca]

Well brother David,which is the name of the Cland which was became Muslim and is hire to Play in 'Yorubas Ceremonies?....the sencond question, what is the detail in the picture telling you that they are Yorubas?,or that they belong to one of the Yoruba Societies in charge of doing the drumming ceremonies,(the picture doesn't show that they are either Yurubas,or Muslims in first place)...and I know both the Yorubas and Muslims culture, the Yorubas/culture by birth and my ancestors, the Muslims/culture,becouse have association through the music with Muslims with are my percussion students and the,( owner of the place were I have been teaching for years now), is Muslim....There is a large community here of african some of them Yorubas with still connection with Africa and they have never heard those kind of stories,I have students from Africa some of them Nigerian and those kind of stories aren't of they knowledge.....To the brother Berimbau those 'Doctoral works which you are mentioning are in the 1970's time/frame, which but that time the influence of the Yorubas/from Cuba, to South America,the Caribbean and the U.S.,was old, Brazil always have connection to Cuba through the exchanges in Carnavals with date back to the 1920's....Berimbau just to give you overview of the influence of Cuba in Brazil,( Jose White Laffitte(1836-1918),was a cuban musician which in 1954 did performance with Gottschalk in Cuba,went to France to study became teacher over there in France, toured the U.S., as soloist in NY(1875-76) under Theodore Thomas,also in Bostom,Philadelphia,Washigton,..Toured the Americas and went to Brazil becoming music/director of orquestras in Brazil and becoming the Director of the Imperial Conservatory in Brazil with Arthur Napoleao,(Portugal),after that went back to teach in France were he died in around 1918.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1157047620

[Facundo]

Well brother David,which is the name of the Cland which was became Muslim and is hire to Play in 'Yorubas Ceremonies?....the sencond question, what is the detail in the picture telling you that they are Yorubas?,or that they belong to one of the Yoruba Societies in charge of doing the drumming ceremonies,(the picture doesn't show that they are either Yurubas,or Muslims in first place)...and I know both the Yorubas and Muslims culture, the Yorubas/culture by birth and my ancestors, the Muslims/culture,becouse have association through the music with Muslims with are my percussion students and the,( owner of the place were I have been teaching for years now), is Muslim....There is a large community here of african some of them Yorubas with still connection with Africa and they have never heard those kind of stories,I have students from Africa some of them Nigerian and those kind of stories aren't of they knowledge.....To the brother Berimbau those 'Doctoral works which you are mentioning are in the 1970's time/frame, which but that time the influence of the Yorubas/from Cuba, to South America,the Caribbean and the U.S.,was old, Brazil always have connection to Cuba through the exchanges in Carnavals with date back to the 1920's....Berimbau just to give you overview of the influence of Cuba in Brazil,( Jose White Laffitte(1836-1918),was a cuban musician which in 1954 did performance with Gottschalk in Cuba,went to France to study became teacher over there in France, toured the U.S., as soloist in NY(1875-76) under Theodore Thomas,also in Bostom,Philadelphia,Washigton,..Toured the Americas and went to Brazil becoming music/director of orquestras in Brazil and becoming the Director of the Imperial Conservatory in Brazil with Arthur Napoleao,(Portugal),after that went back to teach in France were he died in around 1918.Dr. Zaragemca

Hey Doc,
I can't tell if these are just questions or if you are challenging the info. It is understandable that one would question Muslim drummers playing for indigenous African ceremonies given how dogmatic Muslims can be. No offence intended. However, money and / or economic need can even quell dogmatism. There are a number of bata drummers in Nigeria that have converted to Islam but since drumming is their livelihood they have received permission from their Imam to play for "fetish" ceremonies. A friend of mine ran into this in Nigeria when he needed to have Anya played. The same holds true for a number of the woodcarvers. Aggressive evangelism on the part of both Christians and Muslims have devastated the cultural construct of Nigeria and many other places around the world. This is a topic which very much disturbs me and there is a lot I could say about this issue but I will confine my response to the core question.

While the bata in the photo from Benin don't look like the bata from Nigeria which also look like the bata of Cuba, they are bata drums. There is a similar photo in Dieux d'Afrique by the late Piere Verger which shows the bata being played. The caption calls the drums, bata. It must be remembered that the national borders established by European colonialist are not natural borders of the indigenous ethnic groups.

Best regards,
Facundo

[JohnnyConga]

WOW!! how ONE picture is worth a 1,ooo words...."JC" Johnny Conga....and then some.....

[zaragenca]

You are more than welcome Facundo,I never said that those wern't Batas/drum,what I said and repeat is there is nothing in the picture telling me that they belong to any of the societies in Benin which were in charge of the drumming ceremonies,neither thay they are Yorubas,or that they are Muslims,and if these Batas were made by these individuals,(THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THEM).There are people which know how to make the Batas better than these guys,and they aren't Nigerias...So I don't have to believe anything else...I asked the Muslims if they knew anything about it and they are rage,(they have fight even Muslims people for centuries for not been radical enough to the Coran).Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1157072145

[davidpenalosa]

I asked the Muslims if they knew anything about it

"THE Muslims"?

It turns out this particular photo is also found in the CD booklet of the Smithsonian-Folkways CD I mentioned: "Yoruba Drums from Benin, West Africa". The drummers are Yoruba from Pobé, Benin.

In fact, the recording and liner notes are by Marcos Branda Lacerda, the author of the German language book Thomas cited. Here's an excerpt from the what I assume to be translated liner notes:

"The bata ensemble is divided into two instrumental sections. The first one, composed of the support drums omele ako (male small drum), ome abo (female small drum) and eki, establishes the musical texture that is structurally maintained throughout the piece. The support drums are characterized by the continuous repetition of one segment, with some variations that do not interfere with the original status of that one segment in the texture.

The second section is composed of the mother drum, the iya ilu, which interacts with the support drums, and which is characterized by diverse and soloistic configurations. The two instrumental sections are interconnected by the performance of the ako drum. This drum, in contrast to other support drums, can break up the repetition of its pattern to interact directly with the iya ilu at some predicable moments."

I see what you mean about the text Thomas.

The CD has excellent fidelity though, it's well recorded.

Zaragemca, I don't recall the name of the Molsem bata clan. I believe there's more than one in Nigeria. NYC drummer Carlos Gomez encountered Moslem bata drummers in Nigeria when he was initiated as a babalawo. I forgot the name of the ethnomicologist who is close to the particular Islamic bata clan I mentioned (but my dog did not eat my homework). He lives in the Seattle area and I'll see if I can track him down. He gave me some video tapes of these guys playing bata for Gelede. I think his name is Andy. I last saw him at an ethnomusicological convention in Seattle in 1992, where Los Muñequitos performed. We sat together and he enjoyed recognizing Yoruba ritual in the Lukumi portion of their performance. So, stay tuned and hopefully I'll have an answer soon.

By the way, African bata come in many different shapes and sizes. Some look quite similar to their Cuban "cousins", but many look different as the photo reveals. In other words, there is more variety in shape and size in African bata. There are more than three different drums.

Berimbau,
Is there anything else you can tell us about the Brazilian bata? Are they believed to have arrived in Brazil in the early 1800's like in Cuba?

-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1157094446