Giraldo Rodriguez-Afro Tambores Bata - by Tomas Altmann

Let's discuss about the origin and history of this beautiful instrument...

Postby tamboricua » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:36 am

Attached is a very nice article about the famous Giraldo Rodriguez-Afro Tambores Bata album written by percussionist Thomas Altmann.

Giraldo Rodriguez-Afro Tambores Bata

Enjoy,

Jorge Ginorio
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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:57 am

I have a Bata album by Giraldo Rodriguez, one of the best EVER recorded...."JC" Johnny Conga...
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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:59 am

It is the same album pictured above....."JC" Johnny Conga..
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Postby ABAKUA » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:27 am

JohnnyConga wrote:It is the same album pictured above....."JC" Johnny Conga..

Wow! Now that is extremely rare!! I have heard of this album and have looked for it for over 13 years.
Any chance someone can hook me up with a copy on CD or tape for me pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!!?

Or anyone willing to sell me the vinyl? :D Doubt it!
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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:03 pm

Abakua ... I think I have a cassette copy of the album..I have to look for it ..If I find It I would be happy to make you a copy of it....I have no way to transfer the album to cassette or cd...paz...."JC" Johnny Conga... :D
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Postby zaragemca » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:50 pm

Saludos,It looks to me as a clandestine recording made in Cuba,(which is the reason of the shaky information,and quality,and more important of all the misspelling of name of the Orichas),after that It was taking out side for mastering,Giraldo Rodriguez is wrong in letting this to call a name upon himself as 'el mas genuino conjunto',and also it was not the first recording of this subject since the first one doing a decent recording of this subject with all the supervision and quality of performing was Dr. Obdulio Morales in the Panart/Studios...This was not done for a good preservation of the culture, but for the bucks. Jesus Perez,Giraldo Rodriguez,Papo and Torregosa,were involved in doing this type of shows in the Cuban/Casinos for the entertainment of the customers also,..But coincidence?.... they all went out early to 'Campofinda', than the rest of the Bataleros and broke.Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby Facundo » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:39 pm

The article is interesting and it is good that attention is brought to this particular recording. I should note that the record cover shown is not the original cover. This recording surfaced here in States in the early sixties. The Panart recordings Doc Z mentioned came out before the Geraldo recording. However, for those who were trying to study bata it was a gem because of the recording clarity and solo tracks of oro secco. It is still a gem because it represents a style of playing that has all but disappeared in Cuba and to the best of my knowledge, the only recording by Geraldo. Altmann says that the singer is Jesus Perez but I think it may have been the famed Akpon Jose Antonio.

It should also be noted that Altmann's info on the New York bata scean is not correct. While, Onelio did own the first set of consecreated bata and did relocate to Puerto Rico, he was the owner of the drums but he was never cosidered to be a drummer. Totico was known as a rumba singer and never held in high regard as a laturgical musician like Julito. However, he has recently acquired a set of sacred bata that are now played in the New York area.

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Postby zaragemca » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:51 pm

I'm in the worse position becouse I haven't heard the recording,but observing the whole presentation it was a clandestine appraoch,I also couldn't see that Jesus Perez would be recording this and not playing the Iya,Giraldo have some pryor recording playing congas,(I have never heard him playing Batas),also I guest that,'Totico' have some recording in congas with 'Patato',but I don't know him neither...but Julito have been teaching around N.Y., and also playing, so people could observe and learn from him.Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby ABAKUA » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:30 pm

zaragemca wrote:I'm in the worse position becouse I haven't heard the recording....


Giraldo have some pryor recording playing congas,(I have never heard him playing Batas),


also I guest that,'Totico' have some recording in congas with 'Patato',but I don't know him neither...



Then in all honesty and with all due respect, no offence, but you are in no position to comment on the content or credibility of this recording project.




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Postby zaragemca » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:05 pm

Saludos,the only comment which I said,it is based on my extensive experience as CD/producer and session musicians,and knowledge of how things are done in Cuba,(some times),...And the only comment was that it is a clandestine production.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby Facundo » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:20 pm

zaragemca wrote:Saludos,the only comment which I said,it is based on my extensive experience as CD/producer and session musicians,and knowledge of how things are done in Cuba,(some times),...And the only comment was that it is a clandestine production.Dr. Zaragemca

Doc, you might be right or the other possibility is that it was done "on the cheep" as were many other recordings during that time. Never the less we are lucky to have what was recorded for reasons already mentioned. The sad thing is that we don't have more examples of the "old masters" playing this music. We can only assume that when Ortiz was doing his work there was no comercial market for that type music.

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Postby zaragemca » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:37 pm

My brother Facundo,the cheap have nothing to do with the proper presentation and credit of recording,(remember that in Cuba they have been recording artists and Orquestras since 1893),and all the recording are in good listening condition... I doesn't click to me that Jesus Perez Puente,(ebae),would be there and not recording the Iya, the misspelling,giving so much credit to Giraldo,(when there were other Olu Batas before him which were still alive there),and he is not a direct disciple of Pablo Roche.Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby Facundo » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:44 pm

Doc,

I beg to differ with you; not giving full credit to the musicians for me is quite indicative with doing things "on the cheep". Maybe this is just an issue of defining terms. The recording quality is not the question here. In comparison to other "folkloric" recordings of that time period, which were very few, the studio recording quality was excellent. As I mentioned, this recording was and still is a gem for drummers looking to hear and pick up the nuances in the music because of the recording quality. A quality, by the way, that was far better than the Panart recordings of that time, which, were, in my view, also "done on the cheep".

The liturgical musical heavy weights of that time of which, Giraldo was certainly one of, were given very little artistic regard. Their musical genre only had value in terms of how much of a "whow factor" it could add to floor shows in Casinos and hotels. Much credit must be given to Ortiz, Cabrera and Latanchere (sp) for their works that served to clearly demonstrate that there was a very rich cultural construct at core of those africanisms. It is these African elements that define the uniqueness and national identity of Cuba today. Afro Cuban music and culture are every bit a Cuban national product as cigars, sugar and rum.

Also, Giraldo was a disciple of Pablo Roche. He was his secondero (itotele player). Jesus Perez is given a great deal of credit as being the mentor of many of today’s master olubata. However, he assened to that position only after the greatest had passed on. According to an account given to me by an elder Santero who was a kid that Pablo had befriended, Jesus was the youngest and least capable within Pablo's house of drummers. Of course, over time he too became a master of masters but was only recognized as such after his elders became old and stopped playing or died off. It must also be noted that Jesus came along during a critical period of change and had the personality necessary to meet those changes and was able to bring the music into a new era.

There is much that is unknown to the general public regarding the true ranking among the drummers of that time. For example, Pablo Roche was considered the master of the master players but he looked to Miguel Somodevilla as the real master. Miguel was secondero for Andres Roche, (Pablo's father). Miguel outlived Andres and became Pablo's mentor and elder advisor. Pablo was fascinated with Miguel’s playing and rock solid timekeeping ability.

The point in mentioning all of this is that if Jesus was on this recording it should not necessarily be expected that he would play the iya drum with Giraldo being his elder.

Best regards,
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Postby davidpenalosa » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:56 pm

Facundo wrote:It must also be noted that Jesus came along during a critical period of change and had the personality necessary to meet those changes and was able to bring the music into a new era.

Facundo,
Is the "critical period of change" you refer to the Cuban Revolution?
-David
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Postby zaragemca » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:24 pm

Brother Facundo,did you know that I did live several years in the same exactly block where the Panart/Studios are still standing today,(which become the E.G.R.E.M),National Recording Studios in Cuba. how many recordings of Panart/Studios have you heard.(the person discribing the recording is talking about the facts of having problems listening the Iya)...It could be a historic gem,and still be a clandestine recording,( been historic gems,have nothing to do which been clandestine approach)...The secundero of Pablo Roche was Aguedo Morales and later Raul 'Nasaco' Diaz..how many times did you see Giraldo Rodriguez playing with Pablo Roche.Dr. Zaragemca



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