Timbales crash
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by montezuma » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:44 am
Hola!
Could anyboday recomand me any crash for timbales? I know that it should by crash, but which one? - Sabian, Istanbul, Zildian and which model? I just began my adventure with Timbales so I don't want to spent to much money on it (100 - 120 euro - it's ok for me).
Montezuma
Could anyboday recomand me any crash for timbales? I know that it should by crash, but which one? - Sabian, Istanbul, Zildian and which model? I just began my adventure with Timbales so I don't want to spent to much money on it (100 - 120 euro - it's ok for me).
Montezuma
- montezuma
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- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:51 am
by Raymond » Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:54 pm
What type of crash cymbal you use will depend on what do you like and of course, will depend in your budget. There are good ones out there that could cost you $160 plus but there are also budget ones that will cost you less $100..
The first question is if you like a medium or thin crash. The thinner the cymbal, the more it will substain the "note" when you hit it. A medium crash cymbal will most likely be better for hits like a "ride" cymbal, used for mambo jazz patterns. Which one? Again depends on what do you like.
A third thing to consider is that cymbal companies have different types of cymbal that will have "darker" or clearer sounds. For example, Zildjian has a K series that its cymbals are darker in sound than the A series that is very bright. Materials is another thing to consider, top of the line cymbals will be made out of better materials than the "beginner" lines most companies have and will tend to be stronger cymbals.
Now that you have those facts to do your search, what do I recommend? Personally, I have a Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale, paper thin crash, that is no longer made by Ziljian but that is a great cymbal for salsa playing. Bright crashes. Also, I have the "darker"/older version of Ziljian's Azuka Timbale that is medium thin. Recommend Sabian's "El Sabor" that is the equivalent to the Azuka line of Ziljians. I think Zildjian decided not to do anymore the "Salsa Timbale" and concentrate on the Timbale that I've heard has become brighter in sound. Ziljian's A paper thin crash and Sabians AA and AAX also paper thin are good as well as the medium crashes are pretty good. However, these are top of the lines and will cost you $160 or more. You could check some of this in e-bay used or that somebody who does not want them.
Sabian's B8 Pro that is their budget line has a good thin and medium crash. Also, Zildjian's ZBT also. These could cost you less than $100.
Difficult thing here...You have to go and test them and see what you like. I gave you all this background so you could work with it when you go to the store.... Try them in the store if you want to. In summary, recommend you get the best you can. The better the cymbal the most it will last you since the materials will be better. Tell us what you get!
Saludos!
The first question is if you like a medium or thin crash. The thinner the cymbal, the more it will substain the "note" when you hit it. A medium crash cymbal will most likely be better for hits like a "ride" cymbal, used for mambo jazz patterns. Which one? Again depends on what do you like.
A third thing to consider is that cymbal companies have different types of cymbal that will have "darker" or clearer sounds. For example, Zildjian has a K series that its cymbals are darker in sound than the A series that is very bright. Materials is another thing to consider, top of the line cymbals will be made out of better materials than the "beginner" lines most companies have and will tend to be stronger cymbals.
Now that you have those facts to do your search, what do I recommend? Personally, I have a Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale, paper thin crash, that is no longer made by Ziljian but that is a great cymbal for salsa playing. Bright crashes. Also, I have the "darker"/older version of Ziljian's Azuka Timbale that is medium thin. Recommend Sabian's "El Sabor" that is the equivalent to the Azuka line of Ziljians. I think Zildjian decided not to do anymore the "Salsa Timbale" and concentrate on the Timbale that I've heard has become brighter in sound. Ziljian's A paper thin crash and Sabians AA and AAX also paper thin are good as well as the medium crashes are pretty good. However, these are top of the lines and will cost you $160 or more. You could check some of this in e-bay used or that somebody who does not want them.
Sabian's B8 Pro that is their budget line has a good thin and medium crash. Also, Zildjian's ZBT also. These could cost you less than $100.
Difficult thing here...You have to go and test them and see what you like. I gave you all this background so you could work with it when you go to the store.... Try them in the store if you want to. In summary, recommend you get the best you can. The better the cymbal the most it will last you since the materials will be better. Tell us what you get!
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by montezuma » Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:05 pm
Thanks Raymond!
I'm playing now in a band which plays mostly mambo (songs of Tito Puente, Cal Tjander etc.). So I think that I need a crash which sounds like a jazz cymbal. I think I should go to the store and try a few crashes and then mayby look for them in eBay.
Thanks a lot! And Marry Christmas!!!
Saludos!
I'm playing now in a band which plays mostly mambo (songs of Tito Puente, Cal Tjander etc.). So I think that I need a crash which sounds like a jazz cymbal. I think I should go to the store and try a few crashes and then mayby look for them in eBay.
Thanks a lot! And Marry Christmas!!!
Saludos!
- montezuma
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:51 am
by Raymond » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:05 pm
The Meinl Candela series is pretty good too! Meinl has pretty good cymbals too. (Forgot about them as well as Paiste. However, not familiarized with Paiste's line or Istanbum).
Looks like you are playing type of tropical music that you will not need a very powerful crash cymbals like the Ziljian A series or the Azuka Salsa Timbale or Sabian's AA or AAX series. (I think your perfect cymbal will be the Zildjian's Azuka Timbale which is medium thin and darker but not as bright or powerful as a crash as the "A" or "Azuka Salsa Timbale"). What apparently you need is a medium thin crash that is not as powerful and is very good for "mambo jazz patterns" (ride cymbal like grooves).
Again, tell us what you get! Anything we could be of help, let us know. Saludos!
Looks like you are playing type of tropical music that you will not need a very powerful crash cymbals like the Ziljian A series or the Azuka Salsa Timbale or Sabian's AA or AAX series. (I think your perfect cymbal will be the Zildjian's Azuka Timbale which is medium thin and darker but not as bright or powerful as a crash as the "A" or "Azuka Salsa Timbale"). What apparently you need is a medium thin crash that is not as powerful and is very good for "mambo jazz patterns" (ride cymbal like grooves).
Again, tell us what you get! Anything we could be of help, let us know. Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by fabrizio » Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:27 pm
Hello Montezuma and Merry Christmas! Meinl is a good choice for budget control; I have an UFIP cymbal crash/ride 16" Class series, it has a nice crash and played in the middle nice ride, very nice bell, quick response...I don't know if is one into a million or if it is normal, but I'm really proud of it, and the same all people who play with me. Maybe from Poland you will be able to find it, they are made in Pistoia, Italy.
If you have time to travel, you can go directly into the UFIP factory where you can choose the cymbal of your life....
Nice to help you, Fabrizio.
If you have time to travel, you can go directly into the UFIP factory where you can choose the cymbal of your life....
Nice to help you, Fabrizio.
- fabrizio
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- Location: Genova-Italy
by Isaac » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:51 am
There' are Crash / Ride Cymbals that
are right in between the two categories.
I use a 17" Sabian Crash/ride, but now I prefer
Zildjians. With a crash/ride I'm covered for different types of songs. There
are better and more expensive cymbals
if you can afford them. Also consider that the sound you personally hear from your cymbal
or even from a bell, is not what's heard 10-15
feet away by the audience or even at the other
end of the bandstand, so volume capability
and projection are important. That doesn't mean they'll be too loud, but will be able to
be so when called upon, and won't get lost in
the mix.
Isaac
Percussionist / Rep. for JCR Percussion Co.
funkytradition@yahoo.com
are right in between the two categories.
I use a 17" Sabian Crash/ride, but now I prefer
Zildjians. With a crash/ride I'm covered for different types of songs. There
are better and more expensive cymbals
if you can afford them. Also consider that the sound you personally hear from your cymbal
or even from a bell, is not what's heard 10-15
feet away by the audience or even at the other
end of the bandstand, so volume capability
and projection are important. That doesn't mean they'll be too loud, but will be able to
be so when called upon, and won't get lost in
the mix.
Isaac
Percussionist / Rep. for JCR Percussion Co.
funkytradition@yahoo.com
-
Isaac - Posts: 512
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:53 am
- Location: Canada
by TigerBongo » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:06 am
Hi Montezuma,
I personal like the sound and versatility of the Sabian El Sabor Crash/Ride. I have an 18" Cym and it is really good as a cross over between Salsa and Latin Jazz. Plenty of full & fast response crash for those salsa hits - but also plenty of jazz flavour when riding the cymbal for Tito/Cal charts! This cymbal has a unique flanged edge and an unlathed bell....sweet!
I'd recommend this if you are after a one cymbal - that can cover most bases (well almost!) - try to see if you can find one 2nd hand on ebay....
If you are keen to use more than one cymbal (I love to add addtional flavour/colours - especially to latin jazz charts!) - I'd recommend adding a slightly smaller & thinner cym. I use a 16" Zildjian K Custon Dark Crash - stacked just above my 18" on my right. If I'm really keen I add a 20" Sabian A Sound Projection Ride as well to my left (similar to the El Sabor with a flanged edge)......3 cyms in total - but generally only for latin jazz. This gives you the ability to do broken cym/bell parts across to similar ride size cyms.
Hope that was helpful - a few of my preferences!
Craig - TigerBongo
I personal like the sound and versatility of the Sabian El Sabor Crash/Ride. I have an 18" Cym and it is really good as a cross over between Salsa and Latin Jazz. Plenty of full & fast response crash for those salsa hits - but also plenty of jazz flavour when riding the cymbal for Tito/Cal charts! This cymbal has a unique flanged edge and an unlathed bell....sweet!
I'd recommend this if you are after a one cymbal - that can cover most bases (well almost!) - try to see if you can find one 2nd hand on ebay....
If you are keen to use more than one cymbal (I love to add addtional flavour/colours - especially to latin jazz charts!) - I'd recommend adding a slightly smaller & thinner cym. I use a 16" Zildjian K Custon Dark Crash - stacked just above my 18" on my right. If I'm really keen I add a 20" Sabian A Sound Projection Ride as well to my left (similar to the El Sabor with a flanged edge)......3 cyms in total - but generally only for latin jazz. This gives you the ability to do broken cym/bell parts across to similar ride size cyms.
Hope that was helpful - a few of my preferences!
Craig - TigerBongo
- TigerBongo
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- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: New Zealand
by Tamborim » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:43 pm
Hello members.
I am a long time drumset player and also play percussion. I hope I can add something here.
First of all, my respects.
What cymbal?
Well this is not an easy question to answer. People will say "Buy this" and "Buy that" etc. In the end it all comes down to you. What sound you like, what you can afford, will you be buying more etc.
In the past there were only three serious brands. People with my level of experience would never have looked at some of the "lesser brands". Things are different today.
The three serious brands are...
Zildjian.
Paiste.
Sabian.
These companies make great cymbals. They are very expensive though. They also have loads of money for advertising and have a 'cool' image.
Today other companies have caught up to the Big Three. If you are on a budget, I personally feel the Meinl are very worth checking out. Their Byzance series is simply superb. In fact I have a Byance 18" crash for my timbales. This crass sounds similar to a Zildjian K series cymbal. I am able to ride on it and keep the overtones to a reasonable level, plus it has a great bell and fantastic crash response.
I chose this cymbal because it compliments the brass shell of my LP Tito Puente timbales. I use it in conjunction with a 16" Jack deJohnette Sabian crash. This cymbal has a fast decay and is good for effects.
Meinl have a number of lines and are forward thinking. Check them out. But if I may, avoid the "Raker" line. They have never had a good reputation.
Another great company that makes fine cymbals is Istanbul. I highly recomend you check them out. They are very cheap when compared to the Big Three.
UFIP are now possibly the most characteristic of all the brands. They have a number of different series out and are all great. They are thin cymbals, very good for use with timbales. Their Ice bells are fantastic. In Australia, where I live, they are over $100.00 cheaper than the LP bells. And in my opinion, they are much better.
So what should you choose? You should choose the cymbal that you like. Go to a store and ask questions of the staff. But remember, all stores have select dealerships and often make recomendations on the cymbals from which they gain the most profit.
Use your ears, and if possible, compare the cymbal with the cascara sound within your shells.
I hope I have been of some help. I wish you all the best of luck.
I am a long time drumset player and also play percussion. I hope I can add something here.
First of all, my respects.
What cymbal?
Well this is not an easy question to answer. People will say "Buy this" and "Buy that" etc. In the end it all comes down to you. What sound you like, what you can afford, will you be buying more etc.
In the past there were only three serious brands. People with my level of experience would never have looked at some of the "lesser brands". Things are different today.
The three serious brands are...
Zildjian.
Paiste.
Sabian.
These companies make great cymbals. They are very expensive though. They also have loads of money for advertising and have a 'cool' image.
Today other companies have caught up to the Big Three. If you are on a budget, I personally feel the Meinl are very worth checking out. Their Byzance series is simply superb. In fact I have a Byance 18" crash for my timbales. This crass sounds similar to a Zildjian K series cymbal. I am able to ride on it and keep the overtones to a reasonable level, plus it has a great bell and fantastic crash response.
I chose this cymbal because it compliments the brass shell of my LP Tito Puente timbales. I use it in conjunction with a 16" Jack deJohnette Sabian crash. This cymbal has a fast decay and is good for effects.
Meinl have a number of lines and are forward thinking. Check them out. But if I may, avoid the "Raker" line. They have never had a good reputation.
Another great company that makes fine cymbals is Istanbul. I highly recomend you check them out. They are very cheap when compared to the Big Three.
UFIP are now possibly the most characteristic of all the brands. They have a number of different series out and are all great. They are thin cymbals, very good for use with timbales. Their Ice bells are fantastic. In Australia, where I live, they are over $100.00 cheaper than the LP bells. And in my opinion, they are much better.
So what should you choose? You should choose the cymbal that you like. Go to a store and ask questions of the staff. But remember, all stores have select dealerships and often make recomendations on the cymbals from which they gain the most profit.
Use your ears, and if possible, compare the cymbal with the cascara sound within your shells.
I hope I have been of some help. I wish you all the best of luck.
- Tamborim
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:20 pm
by montezuma » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:03 am
Hi!
Thanks amigos for your help. I'm going to spent a littel more money on my crash. So I've decided to buy Sabian's 16" crash (el sabor serie). I was in the store and accept of zildjiana K serie (not very cheep), Sabian's el sabour was the one which I'd like to have. What do you think about my choice?
Thanks amigos for your help. I'm going to spent a littel more money on my crash. So I've decided to buy Sabian's 16" crash (el sabor serie). I was in the store and accept of zildjiana K serie (not very cheep), Sabian's el sabour was the one which I'd like to have. What do you think about my choice?
- montezuma
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:51 am
by Tamborim » Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:57 pm
montezuma wrote:Hi!
Thanks amigos for your help. I'm going to spent a littel more money on my crash. So I've decided to buy Sabian's 16" crash (el sabor serie). I was in the store and accept of zildjiana K serie (not very cheep), Sabian's el sabour was the one which I'd like to have. What do you think about my choice?
Hello. My respects.
Sabian make fine cymbals. In fact the greatest cymbal I have heard is my 17" Sabian HH crash.
I have many Sabian cymbals and love them all. I think your choice is a very good one. Do you already have a cymbal you can ride on? Sometimes a 16" will wash out with overtones. If you do not have a cymbal to ride on, I'd advise checking an 18" in the type you mention.
My best to you for the coming new year.
Good luck.
- Tamborim
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:20 pm
by TigerBongo » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:57 pm
Hi,
I agree with Tamborim - see if you can get an 18" El Sabor (as I mentioned before - I have one and love it!)....up to you tho - I haven't actually heard the 16" - so might also be suitable for riding...
Craig
I agree with Tamborim - see if you can get an 18" El Sabor (as I mentioned before - I have one and love it!)....up to you tho - I haven't actually heard the 16" - so might also be suitable for riding...
Craig
- TigerBongo
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: New Zealand
by Raymond » Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:21 am
I have to give my pro to Zildjian's Azuka series....The Salsa Timbale, that are not making anymore but there are some models still sold out there, is the best one I've found....Very crisp and with a good bell for ride...(Not as good for some tastes but is a good one)...Then you have the regular Azuka Timbale that is as dark as the K series but the bell is great for riding....
Saludos!
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by franc » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:33 pm
raymond,
isn,t it right ??? that it does not matter much the brand to get a great crash from a symbal??? isn,t it the ability of the force, stroke and where you hit the symbal that matters the much??? saludos!! tu pana, franc:cool:
isn,t it right ??? that it does not matter much the brand to get a great crash from a symbal??? isn,t it the ability of the force, stroke and where you hit the symbal that matters the much??? saludos!! tu pana, franc:cool:
ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
Franc ♪♪
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franc - Posts: 359
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