Timbales sizes

[Richard Groff]

I'm wondering if anyone might offer some information...

I read Johnny Conga's comments about drum sizes in other threads (if I understand correctly) that the 12-13 sizes are pretty standard for small ensemble, 13-14 is a "traditional" standard big band size, and the 14-15 is a "modern" standard.

The Tito Puente LP model comes in 3 different sets but I'm wondering if I were to buy one, are the other drums available or do I need to buy the whole set. I'm curious if anyone else keeps different sizes around for different gigs and mixes and matches.

I guess it also seems odd that people are using bigger drums and at the same time tuning them higher and higher, or am I mistaking what I believe I'm hearing at gigs?

[Raymond]

Out there, all major players, play 14 and 15. If they have to adjust, well they just adjust. My understanding is that 13 / 14 combo was a size used in the past until the 14 / 15 came in and everybody took it as the set to have. Nevertheless 13/14 is used but not as popular anymore.

I don't think there is a standard for small or big ensembles. It depends on how you play them.

Anything smaller than 13 / 14 is not going to sound like traditional timbales. There are going to sound "pailas". (Notice in Tito Puentes solos when he uses anything smaller than 13 and it sounds like paila). (Never seen them in pro situations).

I know there is a development, not from Pearl, but a possible signature series of somebody that the timbale is going to be 14 / 14. The individual is already using a prototype in recording situations. (I've tried them and is just all in the tuning).

You bring a hard question that is actually your liking and the sound you need to achieve or the leader of the band wants to achieve.

Saludos!

[Richard Groff]

That's very interesting. I would have thougt 13/14 would be used about as much as 14/15. Do you think it's because there is not nearly as much small ensemble work as big band (if that's even true)? I guess I imagined people like Eguie Castrillo using smaller drums with gigs like Arturo Sandoval.

[Raymond]

That's what I've seen. The difference in volume between a 13/14 and a 14/15 is actually not that much.

I guess the 14 / 15 gives you more playing sufarce. Don't know, I guess......Really don't know. Is just like I said, the 14 / 15 has become the standard used. (You could tell by the varities each pro model of the major manufacturer's gives you. With the exception of LP, and only in the Tito Puentes, nobody offers a 14/15 together with a 13 /14 in the same model. Everybody's got a 14/15 and if they have a 13/14 is just a specific model, i.e, Pearl's Primero, Meinl's Amadito Valdes, etc, etc).

For your information, there is a tendency for bigger drums in the conga area too. Seen some guys with two tumbas or a supertumba. I guess timbaleros want to be heard too and have remained like that. (I know some speciality shops like JCR are making more 13 / 14 but pricing, because of a smaller drum hence less material, is the reason for smaller sizes. Again, not that much difference, at least for the normal ear, in the sizes).

Saludos!

[Isaac]

JCR's normally are also the larger 14/15" Set. The 13/14 we also make, but very few
in compariosn to the 14/15.
I think most popular commercial brands are 13/14" sets.
People seem to want the deeper bottom of the 15".

Isaac
Sales Rep. JCR Percussion Co.

[Omelenko]

The 14 / 15 timbal set is an American invention. In Cuba traditional charanga bands always used the 13 /14. The timbal of choice by master timbaleros was always the 13 /14 Leedy Ludwig Humberto Morales. Production of these go back to the early 40's. In Cuba Guillermo Barreto used them, Ulpiano Diaz with Arcaño and Fajardo used them,Orestes Varona with Aragon used them. Here Puente,Oquendo, Uba Nieto, Humberto Morales,Willie Rosario...... used them because the "cascara" sound was very tight sounding. I have a set of Humberto's and also a set Cali (JCR) made for me 13/14. The 13/14 size sounds much better as far as cascara than the 14/15. However, I do agree that now a days the 14/15 size is more popular. Orestes Vilato is a friend of mine,he loves my Humberto Morales, but these are almost impossible to find, if you do they go for over $2,000. Orestes played my JCR 13/14 and he said "wow I like them more than the 14/15, I going to have Cali make me a set.
Saludos, Dario

Enclosed, a picture of my friend Pat Rodriguez (Tito Rodriguez band late 50's) playing his Leedy Ludwig Humberto Morales.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... mbales.jpg

[zaragenca]

Well, I do agree with Omelenko,in the historical reference....There is not much difference in the sizes,(13/14,and 14/15),the real difference would be in the Alloy,(metals),which could make them to be brighter,and the long body, which produce more deeper tones and facilitate the cascareo,also the difference could be in the rims,(because the angle which you have to use to produce the rims/shots,(in the abanico),..I usully use the 13/14 for bands,(volume isn’t a problem with the actual P.A. System),and small set when playing with DJ’s,(something easy to carry on)..Dr. Zaragemca