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Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:54 pm**

How to play it? I know some basic patterns like ||x[x]xx-xx-|x-x-x-x-|| (or reverse)
The one I put in brackets seems to get played only in certain parts. I know the güiro player does this sometimes by scratching - in the louder parts I think - and sometimes just by hitting the gourd. I also noticed there are often cha cha like parts where the bell is played on every quarter note, the güiro plays |X-xxX-xx| and the congas start to play.
Then there is a bell pattern like ||x-xxxxxx|x-x-x-x-||
Danzonete is basically a bit faster?
I know this just from listening and watching videos like Envidia by Orquesta Aragón and asking better players but could anyone give something like an introduction to this field of music and some more guidelines to which patterns with which instrument to use in which parts?

Edited By Salseroberlinense on 1190660157

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:24 pm**

you know Manny Oquendo put out a tape on vhs, where he goes over the Danzon...its great and offers insight direct from the master, its probably not widely available as I have a copy...its called something like "Manny Oquendo on Timabales"...I would listen to Danzones such as "Donna Lee" by Conjunto Libre...or "Los Jovenes del Ritmo" by Cachao (album "Dos"), or "El Truco de Regatillo" by Son Primero, all are great danzones, that go from the typical Danzonette to the mambo

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:50 pm**

The ultimate danzonero on timbales is Orestes Vilato'. Try picking up Cachao's latest CD's, on the "Ahora Si" one there is also a DVD where danzones are played. Orestes is the ultimate source as far as donzon on timbales.
Saludos, Dario

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:55 pm**

I like Orestes alot...but i'd have to give it to Manny....actually Orestes is so rooted in the tradition and a virtuoso at the same time (he's a complete all around musician)...while listening to Manny is like listening to a recording taken in the 50's....i'm torn....Orestes is a monster...I saw him on a video w/ John Santos and he tore up los bongoses like nobody's business...its was ridiculous...i'd still give it to Manny just because of the feel....

Edited By ralph on 1190663796

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:07 pm**

Thank you for your suggestions. Actually we play Jóvenes del Ritmo with our charanga band, but, believe it or not, we are yet a charanga band without timbales... Someone plays the bell, I play the güiro and no one really knows how to play the percussion correctly. We have a Cuban conguero who is ok but the band leader does not allow him to play timbales because he says he plays too loudly. He says I could play if I learned it. Youtube does not have the other songs you suggested but Donna Lee seems to have been covered quite often. I read at wikipedia that it is originally a bebop. I could not find where to buy the Manny Oquendo video you pointed out but I remembered I have a copy of Tito Puente's "Drumming with the Mambo King", which has a small part on danzón, it can also be listened to. I will study that. I also found out that Giovanni Hidalgo and Changuito play danzón in a video called "In the tradition".

Edited By Salseroberlinense on 1193396102

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:45 pm**

Ralph states,
"Orestes is a monster...I saw him on a video w/ John Santos and he tore up los bongoses like nobody's business...its was ridiculous..."

I don't know how to interpert this, if you think he's incredible on bongos or you don't like him. I think he is incredible on both timbs and bongos. I do love Manny on both timbs and bongos also, I would say Manny is more "old school' feel and Orestes is more experimental, they are both great on danzon, but I think Orestes has a deeper arsenal in the danzon arena than any other timbalero,including present day Cubans on the island.

Abanico !

Dario

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:58 pm**

Omelenko....

Orestes is a monster, I love the way he play's w/ so much sabor, afinque, his bongo chops are incredible and forget about his timbal chops, amazing, he's even great on quinto (check out the Folklorico Kindembo stuff)...all around master percussionist...sorry about the form of speach but "ridiculous" is like saying the guy is out of this world...great player... I think you summed it up great, when you said Manny is more old school and Orestes is more experimental, well said...

Posted: **Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:17 pm**

Thank you for the recommendation. I found Cachao's "Ahora Sí" at youtube, great song. However, I listened to samples of all the songs of the CD and could not find a single danzón. Is it only on the Bonus DVD and there are no samples?

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:25 am**

Salseroberlinense,
The part you correctly identified as the basic danzon timbale part is called the baqueteo. It’s also the basic guiro part (written here in 3-2).

||x-xx-xx-|x-x-x-x-||

Baqueteo is the first clave-based pattern to be used in written music (1879).

On the timbale, the last stroke of each measure (called ponche) is open. The part was originally played on orchestral tympani.

||m-mm-mO-|m-m-m-O-||

m = mute
O = open

The first half of the pattern, called cinquillo, is repeated in sections of the danzon.

||x-xx-xx-||

I agree that Manny Oquendo and Orestes Vilato are tops at playing danzon. You can hear Orestes play danzon on Cachao’s “Master Sessions”. The danzon has not been popular for over a half century. I wish I had opportunities to play the genre. It’s a dying artform. The danzon requires a technique that includes mutes, opens, stick hits and no bell or shell (it’s tympani technique after all). The bell was not added to the timbale until Cachao and his brother Orestes Lopez composed the first danzon-mambo in the late 30’s. The bell pattern you mentioned is used in montuno sections.
-David

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:06 pm**

Manny & Orestes is killer on Danzon. Another one of my fav is Changuito, very experimental flavors!!

T

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:15 pm**

Tonio wrote:Another one of my fav is Changuito, very experimental flavors!!

T

Hola Tonio,

Could you please recommend some recordings in which "Changuito" appears playing Danzón.

Thanks...

Jorge Ginorio

Posted: **Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:18 pm**

Hej David,
Thank your for your reply! I learned some more by reading the wikipedia articles on [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzón]danzón[/url] and charanga. There is a link to the liner notes of an album that are quite helpful, too. They also write about danzón-cha, and I still do not understand all the differences between danzón, danzonete, danzón-cha, cha-cha-chá, danzón-mambo, mambo, and charanga. But I am on my way.
What I found in the Tito Puente book is very similar to what you write. He gives
||:mxmxmxmx|mxmmxmox:||
as the basic rhytm in 2-3 where
m is a muffled stroke on the hembra with the right stick while the left hand (still holding the left stick) rests on rhe head
x is a rim click with the left stick on the hembra
o is an open on the hembra
Then he gives a lot of variations where the open on the hembra on 4 is nearly always played.
A friend told me Changuito covers danzón in his book "A Master's Approach to Timbales". I will ask my teacher if I can have a look at it.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:36 am**

tamboricua wrote:
Tonio wrote:Another one of my fav is Changuito, very experimental flavors!!

T

Hola Tonio,

Could you please recommend some recordings in which "Changuito" appears playing Danzón.

Thanks...

Jorge Ginorio

Hola Jorge,
Unforunately, my source has been from a fellow timbalero. He had a disk full of top timbaleros. Changuito , Orestes, and a few others I don't recall. It was a fews years ago when he played the disk, and I was quite impressed. My timbales studies are not at the level where I would like, but Danzon is definately where timbales shine.
Come to think about it, I don't have much material with Changito.

T

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:32 pm**

Menny Oquendo in the 50's went to Cuba almost three times fusilating the timbaleros of Arcano,Orquesta Aragon, Merceron,and Casino, he went there when Vicentico Valdez did go to Cuba for some recordings.Dr.Zaragemca

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:36 pm**

In relation to the technique..it is a cross/sticks and abanico rudiment..Lol

.I have to play more Danzones in Houston with the mexicans bands than what I played in Cuba.Dr. Zaragemca