Crash For Timbales

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Crash For Timbales

Postby El Greco » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:50 pm

I would like to have Ur opinion for what kind of crash cymbal is better to use with LP Timbales set 14"-15".
At present time I have a Meinl "Candela" 18" but I'm not happy with that..Is very noisy and it's very big for a set of Timbales.I bought it through recommendations from a Drummer-Friend but I think this size of cymbal is better for Drum-Set.
I saw that most of Timbaleros likes 16" of cymbals.Zildjian or Paiste ? What kind ? I prefer something to work nice with my Timbales size(14"-15").

Thanx in Advance! :wink:

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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby Mike » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:38 pm

El Greco,
as to crashes for timbales you will probably hear as many opinions as there are timbaleros :lol:
So here is just my very personal opinion.
Even if I actually LOVE my Meinl "Candela" 18" crash-ride for its bell sound and the -yes- loud crash sound,
I am also very fond of the Sabian "El Sabor" Picante (Hand-)Crash which you can use very well with timbales, a nice, dark bell and a fine crash sound.
A while ago we had a thread on the Picante hand crash viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3645&p=8492&hilit=meinl+candela#p8492 If possible, check out this cymbal, it´s interesting and versatile.

And here is a somewhat older thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3645&p=8492&hilit=meinl+candela#p8492

If you are after a fine and delicate sound, I would recommend the Sabian Evolution HHX series. Very nice and crispy, yet not too loud cymbals there. I also like to play a 10" splash of this series next to the Meinl Candela.

Every now and then I also play a 14" Istanbul Mehmet Thin crash from my drumset along with timbales - also a very decent crash with a fast decay. Jazzy sound.
But normally I am after the crash-ride sound. For me the Meinl Candela offers the best sound there, but it is a matter of taste for sure.
BTW has also got other Latin-oriented crash cymbals in their Candela series, but I don´t know them.
Finally, I tried to lay my hands on an OLDER model of Zildjian Azuka cymbals, but they don´t seem to be around on the market much any longer. They have been recommended by the pros here very much.

Just my 2 cents

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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby El Greco » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:59 pm

Thank you very much Mike for the info,
I will try the "El sabor" and "Azuka".Here is Greece is not available but I will order from Germany this week.To be honnest I do like the "Candela" but I prefer generally 16" cymbal for Timbales.
I will let you know my opinion when I will receive my next cymbal.

Thank you my friend!

El Greco

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Last edited by El Greco on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby Mike » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:03 pm

El Greco, you are very welcome!

I hope you are successful and content with your choice.

And hopefully you can return the cymbals you ordered if they should not satisfy you.

Good luck, brother!

Many greetings
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby Raymond » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:48 am

I am late in this post but these are my five cents regarding cymbals for timbales.

Cymbals are expensive and are technically an investment for somebody in a budget and who wants to get into timbale playing.

The rule of thumb is a crash or a "crash-ride". What to get????? Well, some of the major brands have tried to market some lines supposedly for the latin marke, i.e., timbale, percussionists, etc...However, I have found that they are basically some of their "regular lines" adapated to latin.

Cymbals are "ice-cream flavors", everybody has a favorite sound or is willing to try new flavors but if you do not like certain flavor there is no way you are going to eat it. Where am I going? Well, cymbals have "clear/sharp", "darker sounds" and "mid range sounds"...To get more complicated...you have the factor of how long the "crash" sustains...That means, how long you will hear the cymbal sounding once you hit it. The thinner the cymbal the less it will sustain..so it will be fast to decay after it crashes...the thicker...the more time it will take to fade...Mid? Is mid. The thinner the cymbal, the more expensive, etc, etc. So these are terms for you to be familiarize regarding cymbal when you start researching.

There are other terms like "trashy", etc, etc...that are regarding the type of "additional sound" you will get with a cymbal...The untrained ear will not notice too much about all the things I mention here but eventually if you start playing cymbals you will start noticing differrences in the sounds of cymbals....

Some cheap cymbals will do the trick for you...Some people like to go expensive on it. The advantage of expensive is that the cymbal will last you longer and the sound will be of more quality. I've seen top timbaleros with the budget version of the major manufacturers..so we go with what I mentioned before about the flavors.

What brand???? I am a Zildjian man...Sabian is OK...Paiste I do not know and Meinl just a little bit. My recommendation is to go to a store and start testing some of the cymbals in the store so you try what I mean with the sounds, clear, dark and confirm what I say. Also, here you will test the 16 or 18 dilema which is one question you bring. Those sizes are the recommended sizes for timbal player in a latin set up. Anything smaller, 14 or 12 will start sounding like a splash and will probably work only if you play in low volume set up....(Splash sound is a "cheaper sounding" crash and doesn't have the fullness of a crash...it is a more effect sound that the crash effect that is what is needed in latin set up). An 18 will sound fuller and 16 a little less full but then we go with the thickness of the timbale).

Personally, I have a "no longer in production" Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale, 18, that is actually a Zildjian A thin that is a clear sounding...have an older version of the Zildjian Azuka Timbale, 18, that is actually a Zildjian K, medium thin, (The new version of the Azuka Timbale is a little clearer in sound and looks different)....also have a new Azuka El Sonido, that was a gift from a famous timbalero, that is actually different...Is medium thin, is 16, and is "thrashy"...It serves the purpose of the crash but appears that cymbal is also for hand playing and is "thrashy" in its sound...

Another thing to look into a latin intended cymbal is the bell for "riding" (the "pin sound") used for the mambo jazz parts of a sound...Some cymbals have a bigger easier to hit bell, that is where you hit for that effect, and some have a "fuller" bell...My Azuka Salsa Timbale is great for crashing and is my favorite but it doesn't have a big bell so is hard to get the spot for mambo jazz patters...The other two, have a bigger bell and are easier to hit in the bell...

So what I recommend??????? If you like the Zildjian Azuka line, I recommend it but also I have noticed that Zidjian has the same sounds in the A and K lines, so you could try that...(K's are great cymbals...are the most used...they are dark in sound but their crashes are great..Have played some although I do not own one). Any equivalents to the Zidjians I mention in the other brands will do the trick...Sabian has an equivalent to the Azuka line which is El Sabor and Meinl's version is El Sabor...and so forth......(Is the same with heads, Remo, Evans, Aquarian, etc...they all practically have the same sounds is just some brand works for you better for tuning sound, etc, etc.).

I hope this helps....Putting $150 for a good cymbal is a great investment and a cheap one is close to $75 so here are some guides to help you with this...So take your time.....(Recomend trying as many as you like to get what you want)..

Saludos!
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby El Greco » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:29 pm

Hola Raymond,

Your 5 Cents helped me a lot my Friend!Also Mike's opinion it was helpful!
I used to play with Cymbals when I'm playing Timbales and Hand Percussion.But since I tried sets from another Percussionist I realise that I'm not happy with the sound of my 18" Meinl "Candela" Cymbal.But is too annoid-noizy . I just need a sound to be more closer to Vintage Old School Sound.I think I will try the "Azuka" and also K and A from Zildjian.Most of the opinions that I received goes to Zildjian.
This week I'm waiting to try the "Azuka".I've tried the A 18" (Brilliant Stuff!!!) and I'm waiting to try the K.
Cymbals are "another world"...To find "your sound" needs time...Lot of Cymbals and different "Sabor"...I think all of them are nice...It depens what you want to do.For my set I just want to keep the sound according the Afro-Cuban Vintage Sound.
Changuito uses the Zildjian A ,but I remember him in 2001 to play with Sabian(I don't remember which line).He told me that 16" is perfect for Timbales.He use as well 14"-15" Timbales.But last years I saw Timbaleros to use 18" Cymbals.
Thanx for your info guys!Really helpful!

All The Best!

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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby Raymond » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:58 am

I am glad I could help.

Appears you are looking for a K sound which is darker....The Azuka Timbale could do the trick or any K regular crash. All wll depend the decay you want, that will be related to thickness of the cymbal and if it gives you a thrashy sound. (The trashy sound is sort of like a tone at the end that is not like the regular sound you will get from the crash...my new Azuka El Sonido has that..I will recommend it but it has a little more brilliant sound...). Personally, I like the crash goes boom and quiets down...for that is a thin type. Medium thin will last longer in the decay which I hate...(El Sonido..the decay and trashiness is there that I hate)...

Most targeted to the latin market cymbals are brilliant...

Once you get everything and decide...let us know how it went for "our culture and experience..."

Good luck...Saludos!
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby sielbo » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:20 pm

Saludos,

I see no one has posted anything on this thread for a few years. I just wanted to mention [if anyone is interested], I got myself an 18in Zildjian Azuka cymbal. It has a great sound. I believe my Azuka is an older model; it has a slightly warmer sound. It's perfect for an old school timbalero. Sounds really good in a Latin Jazz setting.

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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby sielbo » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:55 pm

No one has responded or commented on this thread but just in case someone might read it later on, I'll add/update my comment. I returned the 18in Zildjian Azuka cymbal and made a stepper investment. I bought a Sabian 18" AAX OMNI cymbal: Jojo Mayer series. It's a lot like the AAX El Sabor Picante but in my opinion the ride [middle part] has a slightly warmer sound. This is the perfect cymbal for what I do. Awesome crash, ride [bell] and amazing swells [crescendos]. This is a real Ride/Crash cymbal. Usually, Ride/Crash cymbals are neither -this one is the exception! The cymbal came up to $200 on sale.

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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby VJBaros » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:21 am

Has anyone tried soultone cymbals? or endorsed by them? I know a lot of people that are endorsed by Soultone. what do you guys think of the custom brilliant line? http://soultonecymbals.com/CustomBrilliant.aspx

and here is the effects line. http://soultonecymbals.com/FXO.aspx

I am probably gonna try to get an endorsment too!!
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby busyflyin » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:06 pm

Mike wrote:I am also very fond of the Sabian "El Sabor" Picante (Hand-)Crash which you can use very well with timbales, a nice, dark bell and a fine crash sound.



I have a Sabian "El Sabor" Salsa that I use with my hand. I put 2 rivets in it for more sustain and don't have to hit it quite so hard. Works good.
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Re: Crash For Timbales

Postby jesse_velazquez » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:27 pm

I use the 19" AAX X-Plosion Fast Crash. Cymbals are just like politics, everyone has their prefrance and no one ever wins the debate. But I have tried El sabor, and I own a 18 Paiste Crash/Ride and I am very happy with the 19" AAX X-Plosion Fast Crash. The sound is deep and the bell is amazing. I see myself sticking with this cymbal for many years to come. What is anyone else's opinion on this cymbal???
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