Old versus New Timbales and Tarolas ?Paila or Timbalitos

[RitmoBoricua]

On Larry Harlow’s “Salsa” recording Pablo Rosario plays some wicked pailas for sure. Omelenko Soy Yo!

[Bongobilly]

Papaito : I got to see him play up close in N.Y.C at the Drummers Collective in the early 80's. Monster! Funny Jay was there and some of his congas were there too. I remember myself and other classmates hearing that he drums were new in the scene and the one's there had black powder coated hardware.

[epicous]

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[Johnny Salinas]

hello all, heres a couple of photos of my gon bops tarolas, I love the warm sound and the dry cascara, ideal for small 4 to 6 piece groups, any larger you would have to mic the wood block/shell area so the cascara can be heard. the staved shells are prone to cracking but if you detune them all they way down they will be fine for a long time, I forgot to detune them a coulpe of times and when i finally took them out of the hard case it was as if someone had overtuned them very high, Im guessing it was due to temp/humidity, I always detune them now

[Johnny Salinas]

I love that original syle of playing pailitas/timbalitos, I studied all the videos I can find on them especially Manny Oquendo and Pablito Rosario, I have used them in that style in a few live shows, many of the newer younger bands dont know about that style, I once sat in with a band and they all assumed that I was just going to solo and that I was just going to ignore the campana at the appropiate time, so before I could grab it someone in the band already had it and played so I did end up playing martillo and doing a solo. heres a pic of my 70s LP pailitas they have some old "fiber skin 2" heads that sound better than the standard plastic heads they have a dryer sound great for that style of playing, the sticks that I use were made by a guy who designed them for playing on standard bongos, they have perfect rubber tips, not to hard and not to soft, they sound very good, I was looking for some of the original syle of mallets but no longer available, I guess i can try to make some but I found these to be a great substitution at $10 a pair.

[Anonimo]

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[Johnny Salinas]

Cuco, thanks, Im going try them. yes I know they would sound better with real skin, I just havent gotten around to putting some on. I like your Pan con Queso pailitas, let me know if you want to sell them.

[Anonimo]

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[Johnny Salinas]

Cuco, thanks, Im going try them. yes I know they would sound better with real skin, I just havent gotten around to putting some on. I like your Pan con Queso pailitas, let me know if you want to sell them.

You know how many people want to buy them? But will not pay the price of one rare item. Only 3 were every made one that Papaito owned still at wifes house , Pablito Rosario has one ,and mine.

wow thats cool! I could only imagine that they're worth alot, hey I was reading an earlyer topic you posted last year viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5570 on "Tarolas the timbales of the 30s and 40s" Im very curious in learning the correct way of playing them especially in a band setting, I saw the video you posted of Los Papines in a rumba setting, I had a little trouble making out what he was doing exactly, but it was very interesting. do you know of any videos and or music that I can learn from?

[Anonimo]

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[Ernesto Pediangco]

In my opinion the "King of the Timbalitos" was none other than Matro Muñoz, "Papaito". Papaito played timbalitos with "Sonora Matancera" for many years, he executed bongo' techniques (martillo y contra tiempos) on the timbalitos. Papaito was not only a true master on the timbalitos or pailitas, he was an incredible bongocero and quinto player as well. Mongo told me that Papaito used to sub for him on bongo' back in La Habana around the mid to late 40's. Another master of the timbalitos is Orestes Vilato, there is a recording with Orquesta Batachanga, a John Santos group from the West Coast, where Orestes plays timbalitos and takes the best timbalito solo ever recorded. Aside from timbalitos, I think Orestes is the best timbalero and an exceptional world class bongocero.
Photo of Mario Muñoz "Papaito" (El Rey De La Paila).

Dario

papaito.gif

Thanks for mentioning Papaito ! I also agree Orestes was the masterful technician timbalero. It's a shame that he is so under recognized in the industry. Afro Brand built a model named after Orestes Vilato, and was the first modern timbale set to have the perfect combination of modern shell w/ 5 lug tuning per shell ( is all you need if using a cold rolled steel rim ) which was easier to play cascara & the tuning lug was properly built as opposed to Lp ,Toca & meinl who used a STUPID crude L bracket lug. The model was as short lived as Afro brand soon became Pearl, But Pearl never equaled the Orestes model to this day. The new Pearl models are a poor balance of features, lame lug design & heavier drum mounting & percussion post that is less practical than older American drum company examples. I can see why an endorsed artist would play a model named after him, but we who buy our own instruments deserve a better designed product for the $$$$. I designed my own model which is inspired by vintage models & the Orestes Vilato model made by Afro. But...my drum will never carry an artist name ( they never designed the instrument except for suggesting a feature that was already designed 45 years ago by another instrument designer from an American company anyway. ) Theses companies do not have a good sense of design ~ the companies have grown from copying other designs, nothing is new ~ just repackaged for a different look ! This is also why they do not have the savvy to build tarolas & timbalitos as a stand alone drum set...not just a mini version of a larger set which is poorly designed to begin with.

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Mid 1970's Gon Bops Tarolas, 13" & 14 " drums. ( property of Johnny Salinas ) Oak stave shells w wood laminate reinforcement band & eagle claw tuning system. Gon Bops also made smaller sized shells in 9 1/2" & 10 ".

SalinasGBtarolas.jpg

[NewTimbalero]

It seems you have a lot of knoledge about Timbales; I am new learning the Timbales and I'd like to buy them; my question if you could help me is, would you rather have 13.14 or 14.15? if you would have to choose. I am looking on the LP Prestige Timbales Bronze. But I am not sure about the difference on the size, I was told in the past 13.14 was okay but now the most popular is 14.15? If you were in my case what size would you rather have? thanks in advance for your help. I understand there should be a difference on the sound but as an expert Timbalero, would you guys choose a 13.14 or 14.15?

[Anonimo]

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[NewTimbalero]

thank you very much for the reply and advise; I am actually a Salsa dancer that has always appreciate the sound of the Timbales on the dance floor and that has made me want to learn how to play them.. so I don't think I will be looking to play in big band for now so just to play at home do you agree 13.14 will be fine? I was more worried about the sound quality so do you think the 13.14 has the same level of quality as the 14.15? I'd rather get the best out there than to have to buy again in the future; I have been searching all over the Internet trying to decide what's better thanks again