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Hello: I was wondering what is the best head's to use on early brass shell timbale's. THANK'S.

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Hi Cuco,

I think Bongobilly was asking for drum heads for LP's (see headline).

Calf or goat is the traditional thing. It takes some extra care as you explained correctly.

If you were going to mount plastic heads, I would not recommend REMO Ambassadors, at least not for the macho. Use Diplomats, if not on both drums, then on the macho. You may choose to put an Ambassador or, if you love that bassy, boomy sound on the low timbal, any two-ply head on the hembra. I use regular white coated heads, and I sand them just lightly with extra fine sand paper before mounting. Most new timbales today come with uncoated heads, though.

I'm sorry to confess that on the Leedys that I had bought from you, I took off the animal skins. The macho was just finished. I couldn't tune it up anymore. First of all, the rim was out of round, which - I hope - was caused in the transport, and the drum itself isn't perfectly round anymore, either. In addition, in the older days the drums tended to be wider, so the skins were less floating than today. Now, if the skin hoop is attached closer to the drum shell, when you tune the drum, you actually stretch more the part of the head down below the edge than the playing surface.

I always detuned them after playing, needless to say.

I then considered to put new goat skins on both of the drums. But I finally decided to go back to plastic (Diplomats). The reason is, I want to save the threads of the tuning bolts and nuts. These are old vintage drums, and I don't want to hang on to Ebay for expensive spare parts for the rest of my days. The new problem is now that the rims are much higher than on any regular timbales you can buy today. I have to adapt my rimshot technique and, more importantly; press rolls or indefinite bounce strokes like used for traditional style abanicos, don't work out that well at an angle when you strike from a higher wrist level.

I love these timbales, but I'm a player, not a collector. If I want to save them and play them for a long time, I rather make use of the possibilities of "modern" inventions. I can always go back to hides if I wanted to; but for practicing and playing I'm going to stick to plastic for a while.

Greetings,

Thomas

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Cuco,

I suppose you confused Diplomats with Emperors. Go to any drum store and ask for the thinnest line of REMO's, and they'll sell you a Diplomat. Emperor's are double film heads. These are the thick ones. A student of mine has equipped his LP's with Ambassadors, and their sound is useless.

Also, I have goat skins that are thinner than the calf heads that came with the timbales you sent me. And I have a 20" calf skin that has about 1mm thickness.

To close with, I find that the head coating actually muffles down the ring a bit. It just eats up the tips of the sticks (and my left finger nails ... ouch!). That's why I sand them. I had picked up this advice from a Clayton Cameron video on brush playing (on drum set).

My room is not damp in any way. I have no explanation for why your heads last longer than mine. I mean, I don't play drums since yesterday, either. I hope I have learned how to maintain instruments.

So we have similar ideas of how a set of timbales should sound. I wish I could approve your calf skin theory, but so far I haven't made the experience that they are the ones that work best on timbales. I would love to be a calf skin player, but the requirements of the craft are still dictating my choices. Calf heads on snare drums are more durable than plastic heads, if you take proper care. But on timbales, it takes a long time before you beat up a plastic head with those thin sticks.

I'll be out of town for the week, so don't resent me for not answering to any reply of yours. I just wanted to present Bongobilly an alternative take on timbales heads.

Thomas

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Cuco,
What model/generation of LP Timbales with calf heads are you using for recordings? 13”/14” heads, brass, steel? I am just wondering why are you using the LP’s and not Leedys or Rogers?

PS: Did you play with Machito after the split-up with Mario Bauza? It seems to me than in the 80's Little "Ray" Romero was playing congas with Machito, just before Machito passed-on.

That logo on that Leedy timbal head of yours remind me of El Sonero Mayor Maelo singing "Tengo Un Vaca Lechera"

Echa Caldo Que Los Garbanzos Estan Duros.

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Thank You For The Response.

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Hi Cuco.

Well, I don't have to say anything more, I guess. I agree that natural skins - and probably calf, if you say so - provide the traditional sound. I like the touch and the feel of a natural drum head, too. I have a Slingerland drum set equipped with calf skins, and it is always relatively easy to tune them in a way that makes the drum sound good. Calf skins have a different rebound property, so it takes a little extra effort to get used to it. Some technical things may never work out as well as on plastic heads.

Nevertheless, plastic heads bring the advantage of easier care, lower prices (they may last longer, though) and faster rebound. They have a crisper attack, too. I overheard that particular attention must be payed to the timbal macho with a calf head when left exposed to stage light; is that true?

I know that plastic came into the scene in the 50's as a replacement for calf. Some jazz drummers like Mel Lewis or Jake Hanna and, I think, Gene Krupa, too, have always favored calf. Buddy Rich, on the other hand, consciously preferred plastic. Fact is, the vast majority of drum set players use plastic, clearly. And the majority of timbaleros, too. Plastic heads are no surrogate anymore. They are a serious alternative to calf that is to be considered - and vice versa.

In my 70's LP catalogues, the Tito Puente model timbales could be ordered either with plastic or with calf heads; albeit, the latter were not wrapped around the rim but came on wooden flesh hoops that left the metal rim blank, like with snare drums etc. I still have one of these hoops, I think.

Greetings,

Thomas

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Since you are doing studio work and also studied with Henry Adler I assume you read music.
Nice rig you have there. In a way I can see why LP timbales stock heads are that smooth white coat
to kind of give you that smooth calf head look. That generation of LP timbales has the bottom rolled
outwards later generations have the bottom rolled inwards. Right now the LP Prestige seems to be LP's
best timbales out there.

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Correct me if I am wrong but Humberto Morales was more of a drum kit style player than a timbal player.
So Leedy could not wait for Ubaldo to come back to NYC and went to Humberto instead. Talk about been
in a rush. Leedy and company probably felt they had something really good in their hands and had to
act immediately and Humberto was thrust onto the spotlite. Another guy that intrigues me is Willie
Rodriguez and I think he was known primary as an excellent drum kit player. There is not a lot of info
out there about Humberto or Willie or for that matter even Ubaldo. That's why is so good to have this
conversations and talk about some of the pioneers of the past that have been almost forgotten.

This drum companies like so many other companies live by "Monkey See, Monkey Do" thing. I knew
immediately that LP copied JCR cowbells when they came out with them "ES" series cowbells. Since Pearl
came out with Marc Quinones timbal LP had to fire-back with the Prestige. They are probably made in the
same factory in Thailand. I think even Latin Rhythm Traders drums are made in the same factories as the rest
in Thailand. When you look at that "El Indio Timbal" from the 40's and compare it to the so called "New" Prestige
you can see that there is nothing so new or innovative about the LP Prestige Timbal. Styles and fads go in cycles
you know, they wait a generation or two and then re-intoduce them as new and innovative to an unuspecting audience.