Post photos of your timbales

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[Mike]

It is not a bad idea to discuss personal preferences and dislikes
of your own models, as you do not see as many timbales photos
as conga photos (naturally in this forum).

OK, my 13+14" Afro timbales are from the 1980s, they are brass shells,
and I bought them without a stand or a cowbell holder. So I had to make
a stand (the upper part incl. welding).
Luckily an old LP cowbell holder fit perfectly.
Here are two pics from my basement:

What I like about the drums is their sound, rather dry cascara and
a decent sound that one might describe as old-school or vintage or the like.

What I do not like is the position and length of the sideplates,
as they are often in the way while playing.

[Omelenko1]

Vaya Cuco, pa' que gozes. Leedy Ludwig Humberto Morales solid brass 13"x14", as you know, the best ever made. I have had them for about 35 years.

Dario

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Ernesto Timbalero.jpg

I created a retro hybrid set using Afro / Pearl brass shells ( 13" & 14 " ), adding 6 Leedy / Slingerland era lugs per shell, WFL eagle claws w/ the nickle plating polished off to reveal the brass. I welde mounts to the rims that fit my conga / timbale mount that I made 6 years ago for my Rogers timbales. I powder coated the rims RED on all my vintage timbales. The afro shell original tunning system used long straps that hooked to bottom of the shell which interfered w/ playing cascara and had excessive ring since there was no lugs and backing plates mounted to dampen the shells.

[Ernesto Pediangco]

155669_1383278077026_1684223457_749668_1352958_n.jpg

My favorite Rogers timbale shells ( mid 1960's script logo Humberto Morales model ) that I retro fitted Ludwig clip mounts onto the Rogers mounting plate hole locations to fit Ludwig stands that I welded a Rogers style bell mounting system to. I use 2 mounting post system like the JCR style for versitile mounting options and an L bracket to my left side to hold a clave block. The 3 drum set up is very melodic. I used 2~13" drums w/ a 14" drum. My 1960's Slingerland set uses a 13" drum w/ 2~14" drums. The Gold color rims are a result of refinishing the original rims by removing the plastic coatings or skin from them. I used a flapper wheel sander to smooth the metal & bevel the top edge for saving my sticks & my hands at time. I used a big flat disk sander to level the bottom edge of the rim so it fits plastic heads in perfect fit. I protected the bare metal w/ " Hammerite " brand antique gold paint but Krylon also make the same raint in various colors. Eventualy I had all my non chromed metal parts & some bells & bongo parts done in Red powder coatings.

[Ernesto Pediangco]

2010-09-03 18.00.30.jpg

My late 1960's chromed brass Slingerland timbales ( 13" & 14 " ) were originaly out fitted w/ triple flanged drum rims and tom mounts for drum set use. I recycled the Rims from my Afro / Pearl set and redrilled the mounting from the rims to fit both old & new Lp designed stands. I added vintage Slingerland eagle claws to recreate the Slingerland era Tito Puente Model since these shells w/ rounded bearing edges were from the same design before out fited for drum set use. The Snare drum is a Leedy / Slingerland " Shelly Mann model that was made using the same weight brass w/ same rounded bearing edges. This set was designed to use either calf or plastic heads while the same era Rogers designed was designed for plastic heads, having a sharp 45* degree drum edge that is not good with calf since it can tear the skin . Future Slingerland shells used thiner brass and a folded over sound edge that was not a very strong shell and was prone to bending out of round and denting from playing cascara w/ to much force. These Rims were recycled from a set of Afro timbales so I could use these tims w/ slingerland drum mounts or w/ an Lp style timbale stand. The unused " U " shaped reciever from the original tuning bolts can be used to hold an extra post to mount a charanga bell & clave block etc. I use an oversized cow bell clamp to attach the post. I have to be careful not to chip the powder coatings so I removed any metal on metal contact & came up w/ solutions for that. These Slingerland shells sound better over all tyhan the Afro hybrid set i made. It must be that the backing plates are to heavy on the hybrid set so I will change them & test them. I am sure I spend more time ( years in fact ) tweaking & experimenting in timbale design than the major companies ! LOL

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Ernesto Toca.jpg

The only Toca brand Timbales I ever owned or liked so far ( untill I play the new models ) were designed to replicate vintage styles that were drum key tuned. These 14" & 15 " brass shells were GREAT ! The drums were warm yet you could get volume from them and a nice cascara sound ! How ever, the shells at the bottom were only folded over 90* degrees & not very rigid and could bend out of shape. The lug castings were the same as from "Legend" brand snare drums and were not strong enough for timbales. This is true of all drum castings except Leedy lugs unless you use marching drum cast lugs which are designed for high tension field drums. These drum mounted from the shells using a cast metal clip mount system like what Yamaha used on concert toms and some cheap Asian models used. This put to much tension on the shells and is never a good design to shell mount a drum if alternative are available. I am sorry I sold them ! But...I can build better w/ old parts and still sound & function as well.

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Erns

Ernestos set up.jpg

My Hybrid retro vintage Leedy style w/ Afro / Pearl shells, Leedy lugs and custom Rim mounted system uses early Rodgers stand w/ 3 extension tubes to allow low to high positioning and fits into my bass drum. For some reason, even though I used the original backing plates, the cascara sound is to muted and I will make newer ones that I can cut to a smaller lighter weight until I get the cascara sound I desire. These Afro / Pearl shells have sharp bearing edges that will mold the plastic heads to a sharp fold that does not allow much tuning range since when you de tune such drums, the plastic is not elastic like calf and dead spots occur when the plastic changes from the position it is molded to. I prefer a sound edge that has a rounded egde as wide as 1960's Slingerland which is ideal for both calf & plastic heads, allows the bearing edge to seat the head and still be seated in a variety of tensions. My Meinl ~ Luis Conte model were like Lp design but the shell diameter was to large and the heads were binding to the shells and hard to de ture so fine tuning was hard also. The Rims were to small in diameter & did not fit plastic heads correctly and made premature contact w/ the plastic instead of the skin wire. Regardless of brand...drum making is an art and crude Asian designs are not as developed as old American models !

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Six or more years ago, before Pearl & Gon Bops used a simular mounting system that uses Asian designed conga stand w/ 4 pins on the stand mount, I fashioned a rim mounting system to fit my vintage American Timbales. I weded drill bushings to the rims that align the pins of a conga stand, I buitl my mount w/ 4 pins closer to the center of the stand so my drums are not to wisely separated yet allows me to add my percussion / bell rack for many aux bells, clave blocks and splash cymbal attachements w/ practical hard wares that are not bulky or heavy. I used nylon sleeves and rubber gromets to isolate from any metal to metal contact and not need wing nuts or any other securing system other than a good fit and the friction of the rubber and nylon parts. ( I will show the congas mounted to this stand in another pic. ) I had built this for my Gon Bops congas in 1998 and added the timbales much later. You can see the parts I welded and the insulation materials I used and the separator block I made from wood and added padding to so my drums are braced and protected from scratching. This is a simple solution to vintage drums and cheap conga stands can be used for timbale stands ( non tilting ) id you weld the bushings to the rims. Test fit them over the mounting pins after adding nylon sleeves w/ rubber gromets at the bottom of the pins then test that the conga mountings also fit easily. Pearl & now new Gon Bops from DW drums does a simular design now ( wonders where they got the idea from ) but has heavy locking system and no isolation of the metal on metal contact. My design was inspired by JCR who up graded the Leedy system, Premier did a simular to Leedy style as does Ritmo Studios c/o Mathew Smith. But...I used a conga stand as a template for multiple uses and alows room to adjust the position of the shells and lug/ eagle claw position. Any welding shop / muffler shop can do this for you once you have the parts ready to weld.

[Ernesto Pediangco]

my conga ,timbale mount.jpg

The same mount / stand as my timbales use were once a conga stand I made but w/ intension to double as a timbale stand w/ percussion rack mount. I have removed the nylon sleeve from the pins for Timbales since the conga mount ears do not need the same isolation as my timbales did ( to eliminate vibrations and cross talk between the shells and bells etc for claener separate voices of all driums and perc add ons ) I usualy use a different trpod base and extension tubes on the stand so no parts will touch my congas shells and support the weight and pounding of congas. The rack mount also supports my bongos if needed. This is a solution that worked for me very well. The designs from drum companies were to heavy, bulky, and not as flexible in uses. They were not considering the same solutions to the musical resonance of the drums and did not isolate the metal on metal contacts. My percussion rack is simple, strong and easy to set up & tear down & load up for travel. Less is More ! I did it my self & so can you while saving hundreds of $$$ by recycling drum shop parts ! Since companies wont pay me to use my designs from 35 years experience, I will give the designs to you free !

[Ernesto Pediangco]

It is not a bad idea to discuss personal preferences and dislikes
of your own models, as you do not see as many timbales photos
as conga photos (naturally in this forum).

OK, my 13+14" Afro timbales are from the 1980s, they are brass shells,
and I bought them without a stand or a cowbell holder. So I had to make
a stand (the upper part incl. welding).
Luckily an old LP cowbell holder fit perfectly.
Here are two pics from my basement:

P1080090.JPG

P1080091.JPG

What I like about the drums is their sound, rather dry cascara and
a decent sound that one might describe as old-school or vintage or the like.

What I do not like is the position and length of the sideplates,
as they are often in the way while playing.

Quite the opposite in sound is my Matador Karl Perazzo timbales set in Italian/Mexican colors,
which is quite eye-catching.
The 14+15" steel shells produce a very bright sound, the macho with a thin head especially. I put an Aquarian
skin on the hembra so that the deeper tone is not as ringing, a bit muffled, but with a good punch.

The downside of this set is definitely the flimsy cowbell holder.
The Matador-style way the shells are mounted are questionable too as far as stability is concerned,
but the plus is that you can demount the set fairly quickly.

Matador Timbales.JPG

That´s it for me. Keep the comments and photos coming!

In regards to your Afro shells, I bought the same sized set ( the newer Asian made ones ) as a used set. The heads sounded great but the ringiness of the shells was lame. The cascara was like a kitchen pot since there was no hard wares mounted to dampen the shell. I did not like the mounting system so I re did the bracket to fit both new & original Lp styled stands. I added Leedy lugs & backing plates w/ eagle claws and changed to my own custom made rim & rim mount. ( My hybrid set ~ go see my pics ) These Afro tuning plates are going to be recycled onto wood shell pailas for soloing since I dont play cascara on them. The only Afro model i liked was the Orestes Vilaro model w/ 5 lugs. Pearl makes a simular model now but the mountings & shell sound is LAME. Paerl designs are ass backward & they do things to latin drums that are crude, to heavy and impractical. These are not Rock & Roll, Heavy Metal drums !?

2010-09-03 18.01.14.jpg

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Vaya Cuco, pa' que gozes. Leedy Ludwig Humberto Morales solid brass 13"x14", as you know, the best ever made. I have had them for about 35 years.

Dario

MVC-474S.JPG

I sill have my second set of Leedy timbales I ever owed, my first set I had traded with a guy named Chorolo for a set of Rogers and I wanted a set of Leedy so bad that one day I was working at night club in New York Named Havana San Juan I was with Joe Cotto and Chorolo was working with his band at same place, so I ask him to trade Rogers for Leedy my rogers were brand new I had just gotten.Chorolo's set was all beat up with extra holes but I wanted a set of Leedy so bad we traded. One day as I worked at night club,My teacher and good friend Henry Adler walked into Havana San Juan and saw the timbales I was using and said to me where you got that piece of shit, so I told him I had trade with Chorolo he just shook his head. The following week when I got to his store for my lesson he ask me to go to his storage room and bring a timbales case with timbales inside I opened wow a brand new set ,he asked me how I liked those timbales . I told him they look great the were brand new set of Leedy timbales . He told me they are yours give me $75.00 don't have to pay me right away you give $20.00 a week till paided and so I did. And to this day I have them this was 1962. The set I got from Chorolo were sold to Johnny Almendra he also was looking for a set of Leedy real bad back then.He is a photo of that set and set own by chorolo which was by the way a Leedy & LUDWIG. Know this is only one of the many sets I have .

I once had a 3 poece Leedy / Ludwig maple drum set. But since I did not have the timbales to match them, i traded them for some thing I could actualy use ( I am not a kit drummer ) Why do timbaleros not have the matching drum sets of the same vintage as the timbales ? Willie Bobo had a great Latin / Jazz drum set. I loved that he had a drum set w/ timbales & timbalitos ! Remember his recording of A Night in Tunisia & Cuban Fantasy he did w/ Cal Tjader & Mongo !? WOW ! Since i heard those, I wanted a pair of Gretsch Timbalitos ( was it a 10 1/2 " shell and a 12" or 13") What size was your set Cuco ?

[Ernesto Pediangco]

Erns

Ernestos set up.jpg

My Hybrid retro vintage Leedy style w/ Afro / Pearl shells, Leedy lugs and custom Rim mounted system uses early Rodgers stand w/ 3 extension tubes to allow low to high positioning and fits into my bass drum. For some reason, even though I used the original backing plates, the cascara sound is to muted and I will make newer ones that I can cut to a smaller lighter weight until I get the cascara sound I desire. These Afro / Pearl shells have sharp bearing edges that will mold the plastic heads to a sharp fold that does not allow much tuning range since when you de tune such drums, the plastic is not elastic like calf and dead spots occur when the plastic changes from the position it is molded to. I prefer a sound edge that has a rounded egde as wide as 1960's Slingerland which is ideal for both calf & plastic heads, allows the bearing edge to seat the head and still be seated in a variety of tensions. My Meinl ~ Luis Conte model were like Lp design but the shell diameter was to large and the heads were binding to the shells and hard to de ture so fine tuning was hard also. The Rims were to small in diameter & did not fit plastic heads correctly and made premature contact w/ the plastic instead of the skin wire. Regardless of brand...drum making is an art and crude Asian designs are not as developed as old American models !

Notice my Bongos w/ Valje / Lp crowns on a tapered shell from Peru ( 15 years ago ) ? Do they look like LP's new Dandy Rodriguez set ? These bongos have thicker shell & well rounded drum edges. I built the bottom base rings & got rid of the aluminium ones which i hate because they crack or the chrome peels off.