Drum Circle Culture

[bongosnotbombs]

[quote="congamyk"][/quote]
But these people profess to be "percussionists", "congueros", etc.

No they don't, they don't call themselves anything, they just play.

They have to keep playing the same basic 3rd grade patterns year after year BECAUSE they know little about their instrument. How is that freedom?

The drum cirlce I know does'nt play any 3rd grade rhythms, they play their own rhythms and sometimes no rhythm at all, and sometimes a different rhythm one right after another.

C'mon man, don't you think your overgeneralizing a little bit?

[congamyk]

But these people profess to be "percussionists", "congueros", etc.

No they don't, they don't call themselves anything, they just play.

Then you say.....

C'mon man, don't you think your overgeneralizing a little bit

You are generalizing as much as I am, possibly even more. I am simply stating what I have observed and experienced. You are stating (as fact) that every single drum circle player in the world does not call himself a conguero or percussionist. How would you possibly know that? Have you talked to them all?

I've heard many of these people call themselves congueros, drummers and percussionists, etc. and state emphatically that they know clave, rumba guaguanco, bembe, etc. and other rhythms. Then when I hand them a stick and ask them to play clave in 6 or bembe bell they stare at me. These are the same guys that can't play a conga or djembe in 3 and usually pick up a tamborine or shaker and pretend.

[
The drum cicrle I know does'nt play any 3rd grade rhythms, they play their own rhythms and sometimes no rhythm at all, and sometimes a different rhythm one right after another.

That's funny because the stuff I hear is similiar to basic rock drum beats with a feeble attempt to sound "ethnic" or "jungle". These are so basic that one might teach a 3rd grader in a djembe lesson how to play along. There's no cutting edge music or anything "free" about it. It's a hodge-podge of nothing, usually just a bunch of mish-mashed, senseless junk. And the REAL problem is that these same old "jam" patterns never grow or change into anything more sophisticated, the musicians never grow up. It's always the same old stuff.

[
C'mon man, don't you think your overgeneralizing a little bit?

Again, you are generalizing as much as I am. This is my experience and opinion based on what I've seen. To me, it does no service to them to condone it. I say teach them the truth and bring them into the real knowledge of the drum, it's history, culture and beautiful rhythms, then their lives will be richer for it.



Edited By congamyk on 1184682381

[Charangaman]

To play "free" I think you really need to be master of your instrument.

They said to Sun Ra " A child could make that noise"
Sun Ra answered "But could a child write it?"


Improvisation must be built on solid foundations!

[hueroconguero]

I'm surprised we haven't heard from my drum master, Dr. Z!
I taught myself how to play about 5 years ago by watching Bobby Sanabria's videos. A great start, learning the rich history, embracing the clave, practicing basic rythyms. then I saw an artical in the newspaper about Dr. Z, and I went. Very powerful, and VERY organized. Dr. Z would facilitate over about 8 - 10 of us "serious amatuers" - people like me who respect the drum, respect the rythyms, respect the history, and want to learn more. He would call out the rythym - guaguanco, bolero, mozambique, bembe, etc. then he (or someone else) would start the bell pattern/clave, establishing the timing. (there's nothing like holding a rumba for 10 minutes straight!) As the years went by I got better and starting playing in bands, but it's always a great workout and a lot of fun to go back to his class. So, in answer to this topic, I think there is a place for a "real" drum circle.
salud
huero

[burke]

It’s the old cliché – “You got to know the rules in order to break the rules”

I’ve told my little tale before but it bears repeating. When I was in my teens and twenties I had bongos and congas and beat on them trying to imitate sounds I heard on records.

I resisted the idea of lessons, learning & technique. I was Free!

Free to suck!

Finally in my 30’s I took a couple lessons and truly discovered the depth of my suckyness.

Then followed a painful (ongoing) process of re-learning and un-learning.

I still break the rules (ie. I adapt some stuff like tumbaos to an incorrect but personally more comfortable hand to hand style) but I also make sure that I practice and demonstrate the right way. Somehow, this makes me feel its OK to break the rules.

I will say this one good thing about “Free” playing. I think it has made me a better improviser than some of the cats I’ve met who just plain learned the right way and techniques. They seem a little more uncomfortable about breaking out of the patterns or playing with non-traditional music and musicians.

I think it’s a two way street. The discipline of learning to read, making your hands move in ways they just don’t want to and the freedom of freeform, lose-your-mind semigarbage playing both inform and improve each other in some strange way.

Ps.

I still hate drum circles though
Which means nothing if you like them …some people hate fish …fish is not wrong however.

[windhorse]

Seeing the number of posts, and ones with very strong opinions - and ALL of them valid, brings to mind debates about public schooling.
Everyone has an opinion about education, and they're usually strong opinions. Imagine being an educator like myself, and hearing people around you say, "The trouble with public education these days is......." That's because most are educated in public schools, if not at least a private one. And since we share that commonality, but we all had different experiences with it, we argue.

Here, it would seem that most of us have been to "drum circles", and it would seem a few still go to them.
There's a pyramid you can draw where out of commonality, excellence rises like cream. At the bottom is where people started. Let's imagine how many people who use computers on congaboard started drumming in a tribal celebration in Africa, or in Cuba, Brazil, Haiti, or where the roots of tradition are still flowing.

I'd wager there are more of us who were influenced early on by non-knowledgable or non-traditional patrons of drumming like Kalani, Arthur Hull, or Joe Blow who knows crap.
But, we were excited by the sound, and like the kids we are inside started banging happily.
At the bottom of the pyramid are most people. The crappy drummers who are enjoying themselves in blissful ignorance. I was one once. One of my main teachers who is now as opinionated about drum circles as some of the most vocal here, started out banging on big djembes at Grateful Dead shows.
Yeah, he gave good drumming a bad name, and he looks back on it with disgust. But, the guy is a phenominal drummer! All that time playing nothing for hours on end helped hone an atomic clock inside his metronome perfectionism.
So, the circle, stupid as it may seem, helped him along his path. He rose to the next level - which is smaller. Less people occupy those levels than the lower more common level of sloppy non educated drumming.

I started my first drumming class with a friend of mine who teaches the really dull mind numbing slow 'go go pa' stuff to older white folk. Everyone uses a djembe and all the Ichobod Crane a-rhythmic old folks just eat that up. I went to two of the sessions and never went again. Even as a beginner I had an ear for good music, and this wasn't it. It was shortly after that when I started playing Haitian stuff with Eric which led to Cuban.
But, I started there right at the bottom of commonality like I'll bet most people on computer boards.
I think all of us - Bongosnotbombs included - see the top of the pyramid for what it is - a wonderful golden glowing pointy spire - to inspire us common folk on the bottom to work more, listen more, practice more, play more, and get better at being humans in general..

Hey, I'm sorry guys,,, I went off on this... good thread when emotions run deep!

I'm go off into the woods now for a few days, and will see some of you in Humboldt..

[bongosnotbombs]

But these people profess to be "percussionists", "congueros", etc.

No they don't, they don't call themselves anything, they just play.

Then you say.....

C'mon man, don't you think your overgeneralizing a little bit

You are generalizing as much as I am, possibly even more. I am simply stating what I have observed and experienced. You are stating (as fact) that every single drum circle player in the world does not call himself a conguero or percussionist. How would you possibly know that? Have you talked to them all?

I've heard many of these people call themselves congueros, drummers and percussionists, etc. and state emphatically that they know clave, rumba guaguanco, bembe, etc. and other rhythms. Then when I hand them a stick and ask them to play clave in 6 or bembe bell they stare at me. These are the same guys that can't play a conga or djembe in 3 and usually pick up a tamborine or shaker and pretend.

[
The drum cicrle I know does'nt play any 3rd grade rhythms, they play their own rhythms and sometimes no rhythm at all, and sometimes a different rhythm one right after another.

That's funny because the stuff I hear is similiar to basic rock drum beats with a feeble attempt to sound "ethnic" or "jungle". These are so basic that one might teach a 3rd grader in a djembe lesson how to play along. There's no cutting edge music or anything "free" about it. It's a hodge-podge of nothing, usually just a bunch of mish-mashed, senseless junk. And the REAL problem is that these same old "jam" patterns never grow or change into anything more sophisticated, the musicians never grow up. It's always the same old stuff.

[
C'mon man, don't you think your overgeneralizing a little bit?

Again, you are generalizing as much as I am. This is my experience and opinion based on what I've seen. To me, it does no service to them to condone it. I say teach them the truth and bring them into the real knowledge of the drum, it's history, culture and beautiful rhythms, then their lives will be richer for it.

I suppose you get a lot of drum circles in Kansas City, and it seems like you hang out at them a lot to have so many experiences talking with the participants.

I am merely referencing the circle that happens nearly daily, less than a 5 minute walk from my house. I know a lot of the main participants. I see them there or walking down Haight st. Most of them play nowhere else but there. I can hear the noise from my apartment.

I've never heard a third grade rhythm there, in my 3rd grade we did'nt have access to keyboards, electric guitars, trumpets, djembes, congas, Brazillian Surdos. Actually I think I was shorter than a conga back then. Anyways, I think, some of the people in the Golden Gate drum circle never went to 3rd grade, nor do they have homes or jobs.

Usually when I go there I can hear about 3 or 4 different rhythms playing simultaneously.

Which third grade rhythm?



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1184689950

[congamyk]

Bongo, I don't want to make this thread about you and I. So this is the last thing I will say about this subject.

I don't have to go to all of the drum circles to know that many of these guys think they can really play and know their stuff. I've talked to them - asked them about their music - and you can find out everything in a few minutes of talking to them. I encourage them to learn technique, learn the rhythms, etc. It will improve their music and enjoyment of the drum, it will make them a better improviser, etc.

We have our opinions, let's leave it at that. You seem to enjoy the drum circle in your neighborhood - good for you - enjoy.

I encourage anyone to learn all they can, don't go for what's easy, convenient and cheap. Study, listen & learn. You will be grateful for the hard work later as your musical ability and the sound from your instrument blesses others.

[Whopbamboom]

I'm with bongosnotbombs on this one, regarding the long post on the previous page of this thread.

I look for the benefits in something before I discard it completely.

I have found worth in improv'd drum gatherings.

If it happens to be total chaos with no musical element that I can find at that time, and it stays like that after a couple sessions, then I'd probably go ahead and call it a day. But I do like to get out and see what kind of improv'd rhythms I can groove to, or even pick stuff up from. When the sessions are more coherent, I do find their worth. I just have to be willing to take the time to show up and see what's cooking, whether it be good or bad on that given day.



Edited By Whopbamboom on 1184707296

[korman]

I just looked videos from the drumcafe page that JC mentioned, and I have to say that is something entirely different from a park circles like the bongosnotbombs has near his house, or the much smaller one in my city where I was participating two summers ago.
That is just business. I'm sure the people there have fun, but they certainly ain't making music:)

Actually I don't buy the idea of team building through this kind of drumming. So you banged a drum in one room with your boss ... will that make any difference in your workplace relationships? I don't think so. Banging drums together is just as good teambuilding as drinking vodka together.