Poncho Sanchez Live - ... great show ...

[Fish]

This forum is about the sharing of opinions. It should not and must not become a centre for abuse. Johnny's inital comment (written in anger) came close but he has since apologised for the offence caused. His opinion remains the same and he is perfectly at liberty to disclose that opinion.

Poncho's response (I am fairly sceptical about the authenticity of it) clearly crossed the boundary. His comment that Johnny was a nobody was uncalled for and after accusing Johnny of turning a discussion about music into a personal vendetta he overtly continues it (and indeed, escalates it).

Everything appears to calm down at this point and then King comes along and I feel that this is definitely the worst abuse seen so far. He takes no notice that Johnny has apologised for the way in which he delivered his opinion (not the opinion itself) and decides to reignite the argument. He is free to disagree with Johnny (as he clearly does) but saying that none of his friends "have heard of his ass" (or the rest of him presumably ) bears absolutely no relation to the argument. The implication seems to be that unless you have a certain level of prestige your opinion is woirthless and it should be kept to yourself.

Anyhow before I launched into a synopsis of this discussion I just wanted to implore everyone to settle down and state their opinions in a calm and reasonable way. Above all, don't confuse disagreement with downright abuse. This forum we've got happening here is about music - I don't want to see it downgraded to this level again.

[RayBoogie]

I for one would love to see a "Battle of the Congueros" (some competitive fun), minus the insults of course. We (Music lovers/congueros) haven't seen a battle like this since Ray Barretto and Mongo did their thing back in the 70's. Me personally like Poncho, do I think he's one of the better congueros. No, but at least he's keeping the music alive which in this day in age is what we need!!

We have lost many of our hero's Tito Puente, Mongo, Compay Segundo and recently Celia Cruz. We need Poncho and many other artist to keep this music (Salsa, Latin Jazz, Afro-Cuban, Merengue,Cumbia etc.) going for the future generation.

I would still would love to see that battle though!! I would pay top dollar to see that!

[Ecuarumba]

Well, it's a shame that I have to make my first post here under such circumstances...but King Konga, even if Johnny was a "nobody",(and you should know that he is definetly "somebody" if you were well connected in anyway) You obviously are not aware of the current/past state of congueros worldwide. There are, and always have been guys out there 10 times better than anyone who's recording today, or who your friends may have heard of, but they have not pursured proffessional music careers, or reached the level that Johnny and others have. Are you saying that if one of them were to wander onto this forum, they might not be taken seriously because they are not well known?! I don't pretend to have heard of half the guys on this forum, but I would never disrespect them due to not having heard of them.

[JohnnyConga]

My Brother kingkonga..one u never heard of me cause I left "DA Bronx" in 76 to move to L.A. to perform and tour with Sergio Mendes and Brasil 77 and a host of other internationally known artists. I have been a "Sideman to The Stars" for over 30 years and still play and tour when I can. I will not "Dog" you like u "Dogged" me. I might not be in your "loop" of musician/rumberos, but I can tell you that just go to my website and see who I have worked with and then you will know more about me and my accomplishments, if you feel the need or care to. Yo no soy un 'come mierda,mi pana ,oite? Yo soy de la calle "peoples park" ,St. Mary's, Brook avenue, Central Park "Rumba Wars,you name it I've played there and over 40 countries around the world and at least 7 international tours. have a nice day in "Da Bronx"...siempre con Paz y Tumbas....JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

kingkonga ..here is my website..www.showgigs.com/johnnyconga/index.html...have a nice day in "Da Bronx".....Paz y Tumbas....JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

I would also like to add that I am on the newly released CD by Bobby Ramirez, called "Pan con Bistec", just to let you know that I am still a viable working/touring /recording/teaching musician at the young age of 54 and still going strong The CD can be gotten at BobbyRamirez.com and probably Descarga.com also. always with Peace and Congas....JC JOHNNY CONGA

[rhythmisit]

Well said Johny - You have expressed your apology and maintained your exposure, you da man my friend. I for sure is a new to Latin rhythms and congas. I have been playing eastern rhythms for years on tablas, Dholaks etc and sequencing rhythms on my keyboards. Congas Djembes are fairly a new game for me and I am fascinated and you and this site is the only wealth of information for me. Even big equipment manufacturer don't provide any product info that I am able to get here. Great work and let's all close this thread and get back to Rhythms -

[nobody]

Johnny has proved how infantile he can be, he has a
deep need to remain as a self-appointed leader in this
forum and prove he is somebody. His emotions
run up and down and sideways, he disguises his
hostilities with peaceful words and that he has
nothing more to say. Yet, he keeps coming back again
and again in this thread, he goes to all lengths to
retain some kind of sleader tatus in front of faceless
strangers here.

The thread started peacefully enough, and this bunch
of crap started because of Johnny, continued because
of Johnny, and now the whole topic has become Johnny
himself. Is Poncho the source of the troubles here? Will
everybody stand back and allow Johnnys behavior ?
Yes, we will hear from Johnny again, as to myself, I
am truly a nobody and will disappear from Johnny's
place, dont care about coming back into a board that
has degenerated to this. Because if I do, I will need
to hear the inevitable, more childish rants from
Peaceful Johnny and his services. Look at the last few
replies, its Johnny replying to Johnny, he is in a
Johnny frenzy.

Maybe the title of the thread should change from
Poncho Sanchez Live to Heeeeere's Johnny.

[muddy323]

Thank you Rayboogie and Nobody...but!...I would love to see JohnnyConga band battle with Poncho's band...The music will prove my theory....I never seen JohnnyConga at Hollywood Bowl....I have seen Elrey,ElConguero,Mongo,Baretto,Cahao and Celia Cruz. Who i think have more Percussive sound in her voice than JohnnyConga could dream of. God bless her soul. She is now jammin with Elrey and Mongo now...Dont Hate JohnnyConga...its too much energy, just enjoy the HARD LATIN



Edited By muddy323 on July 19 2003 at 08:50

[KingKongas]

Let me set some record straight to all of you out there...

I dont Johnny-hate at all! This thread started pretty innocently with the "Master of this Site" seeing Poncho live in Milan and deteriorated into a tit for tat... I for one saw Poncho live in the DC area and it was a great show for me as well... including a "TRIBUTE" to Mongo...

Johnny to you... I was born in St. Francis Hospital in the Bronx... (it's no longer there)... I grew up on 143rd St between Willis and Brook... You know EXACTLY where that is... SO let's skip the B_S... I left in 1973. We were VERY fortunate to grow up in that "hood" during the golden years of NYC-salsa heyday. That said... I admire you brother for first of all "surviving" that experience... Then making your career out of that. I have referred you and your site to ALL my friends to check out. We have never heard of you but I STILL refer you to my people to at least give a listen to..

Bottom line is that I will defend YOU like I would Poncho or anyone else on this site.... from the beginner to the most advanced drummer out there against some body out there who wants to call you out to battle! Is that REALLY necessary?

I just think that for ALL your talent and advice you need not stoop so low like sometimes you seem to do... I myself as well, as who knows how many more, have learned from you on this site...

Hope this helps to clear some things up....

[JohnnyConga]

Ok guys...I have apologized allready. This is a country of free speech. I have heard everyone including my personal psychiatrist "nobody". I truly am sorry if I have offended anyone including Poncho. I will only be heard from now on with matters about the drum and only the drum. I see nothing wrong with self promotion everyone does it. I do not consider my self "the leader" of this forum and never did. I was just labeled Congaplace team member, and that is all. I speak from personal experience and have never made anything up and never will. King Konga Thank you for your post as well. I am here to make friends and not enemys though you can't please all of the people all of the time. Always with Peace and Congas.....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[congabebe]

Dear Brothers,

Peace is been spoken, after opinions, of course. All is resolved, hopefully. There is no need for further conflict. Nothing will be gained. We are not here to start a new soap opera.

I must brag on Johnny, I admire Johnny for he truly shares his gift on this website. I have learned many things from his comments and advise. Thank you Johnny.

Equally, I must admit that I am a big fan of Poncho's and was quite excited to see that 'someone' or Poncho himself had actually put comments out there in his defense. I will add that many musicians that play together over long periods of time loose their edge because the music is so well learned it is habit and the fire and inspiration become routine. Many solo artist's change up their band members for many reasons. I am sure Poncho had his reasons. Whatever they were it is not for me to say. Or pass off my opinion. I will say that Poncho has contributed to the history and legacy of conga playing and the many recordings he has performed on are the evidence of his talent and legacy.

I would only hope that he might consider sharing with us again in the future on this forum. I am sure that different opinions will only add to the 'wealth' of information that the forum is so known for. This is truly a special place for learning. There are many talented, published and recorded artists who have shared with us on the forum. To them I am truly grateful.

To Poncho,

If you are truly Poncho Sanchez, then you need to know you have many fans on this website. We (even if I speak only for myself) would be honored if you would consider sharing your knowledge or insight with this forum. I will say that not everyone agrees on every topic, but everyone agrees to be able to disagree on all subjects and this freedom is what makes this forum such a good venue for teaching and learning.

I have not been able to see you play live or to see 'any' recorded conga player live except on video tape. I know of some good players, but none of them are of your expertise or Johnny's expertise for that matter. So this forum has been a big help to me as well as inspiration. That being said, you have a opportunity to gain the ears and hearts of many aspiring percussionists without having to pay for a publishest or recording company. I would only hope that you would consider the forum in that positive light and not negatively as you might have originally.

Peace to all,
congabebe

[CUBOP IN CALI]

Amen to that congabebe I too am a Fan of Poncho's and I have seen him play at Yoshi's in the S.F. bay and love his music ,And I have great admiration for Johnny and his generosity to spend the time to help anybody on these boards . I hope if I'm ever in Johnny's town I would love to see him play.

Thanks to all
Cubop in Cali

[Carlos Martinez]

I feel the need to add some more fuel to an already dying
fire. A man isn't a man if he can't face his co-workers,to give
them bad news. I don't know why Mr.Sanchez chose to fire
these players over the phone.I just don't get it. To me, That
shows that he has no "backbone". I don't care if any of you...
get upset,angry,throw a fit,or curse me for saying this.Notice
I'm not using profanity or spanish slang here either. Thats my
take on this topic. As for Johnny...I never met him personally
but I'll back him up anytime & if you folks don't like it..Ni Modo!

Carlos Martinez
"El Chicano"

[congabebe]

Brothers,

On more comment, I really appreciate the wonderful advise and comments Johnny has shared on this forum. I have heard his music on his website and he is very good. I am glad he has promoted himself, because I think he is truly a talented player and I would have not known had he not been so bold to promote himself. Good for him! I would love to hear him play live and see him sell records like Poncho has. I have no doubt that he knows the musicians that worked with Poncho. And all of us have had friends that we would defend if wronged personally. I do not think he was wrong to defend his friends. However, I have no dog in this fight. I do know that musicians get fired everyday, for tardiness, alcohol or drug abuse, attitude problems, personal conflicts, and just plain not holding your part down, missing licks, walking on solos... you name it and money is always envolved in a job. So loosing your job is never fun, and seeing a friend go through that is just as bad. But, Unless you can come out and say personally what it was that caused the situation to happen, you have no dog in the fight either. The fact that Johnny has opinions about Poncho does not effect me either way. He is entitled to his opinion and I respect him for it. I don't think anyone has a problem with him having a passionate need to defend his friends. Maybe voicing his opinion was too passionate of a reaction on the forum, but I really think he has appologised appropriately and enough is said.

What are we here in this forum for is to discuss? "music", the passion of playing and listening to music. That is what the discussion was about. Maybe a separate topic on music ethics would be more appropriate if you have a need to discuss what Poncho should or should not have done, but I don't see one out there on the forum. Keep in mind, the fact that music is one of the most cut-throat and competitive ways to make a living, that should be a subject in itself. And the fact that nothing is 'fair' in real life, you can't possibly think that everything is 'fair' in music cause it just isn't. Players get gigs for many reasons, not everyone gets to audition, it is usually 'word of mouth' or 'who you know', so I really have no interest in slamming Poncho or second guessing or getting Johnny to repeat what he knows. It really could get ugly and why bother, life is just to short to keep hacking away at this subject.

So, in the interest of peace, can we let it rest.
congabebe