congaplace.com

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:23 pm**

Hey conga brothers, I am new to this site and by the way this is a fantastic site. I have a question. I hope this does not sound stupid or in any way am I trying to disrespect all congueros who have paved the way and paid there dues. I have been playing for about 8 months and I am learning the basics from a friend of mine. I am catching on ok I guess. My friend tells me that I am doing real good, by the way this friend of mine has played congas and bongos since the 70,s. In my mind the guy is a very good conguero. He has lots and lots of patience. My question is Does one need to be able to read music in order to become a good conguero? Keep in mind I am not trying to direspect anyone. I wonder if being able to read music will speed up the learning.
I practice religeously for about one and a half hours everyday. Please help! Also what is a good way to learn about reading music?
Respectfully,
Dantino

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:43 pm**

Hello.
My respects.

If you wish to be a working professional musician, in my opinion, absolutely it is a must. No doubt at all. Studios are very expensive, as are rehearsal studios. The ability to read a chart is essential. Reading is not difficult. Get a teacher to help you. Also check out Louis Bellson's book on the subject.
You will get more one nighters as a sideman if you can read, rather than if you cannot.

I wish you luck.

Edited By Tamborim on 1104435923

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:49 pm**

Thank you for your feedback Tamborim. I will check out that book.

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:56 pm**

Dantino,
It looks like you've been answered already, but let me add mi dos cetavos...

I am not well versed at reading myself, I am still young in this profession however.

In my opinion, having the ability to read as a percussionist will add to your versatility in the music industry-that is for sure. On another note, there are several professional musicians - percussionist specifically who do not know how to read music. I agree with you, Tamborim in encouraging one to learn to read music though.

My case & point is that if you do not currently know how to read - it's not the end of the world. I most musicians have a natural ability to make music - and sound good.

Happy New Year Guys!
Quedate,
Ivan

Posted: **Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:16 am**

Dantino!

I was total analfabet of reading music, didn't know a hit...

Frankly, I had a lot of prejudices towards musicians who knew how to read and they started to tell me about bars, measures, notes, counts... I usually said, man just play and I'll go with, usually it worked. My drum set teacher told me, they read and play the triplets, you hear it and play it! same thing as long it grooves.

Today I'm reading it, cause at certain point I figured it out, that if I can read, I can play, without help from a tape or player live... Got it? It opens You so much more, whole world opens,... When You feel a need to read, just ask some one to tell you basic rules and 'signs' (notes, pauses...) Gradually You get it like a warm tone, crispy slap...

Sky is the limit!

Just practice every day, don't lose that motivation

Congaplace has a nice writings of exercises and rhythms and even tracks to listen to it... This site is really great man!

You want it? Go and take it!

Groovy 2005!

Primoz

Posted: **Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:04 am**

My two cents on this matter....If you can do it...do it. Even if you do not become very proficient, i.e., to play a gig while sight reading and become reliable at it, it will give you a better idea of what are you doing. You will be way ahead of those who do not and do not have a sense of bars, etc, etc.

However, if you want to become a session recording player and be one that is called for sight reading, as explained above, then you must do it and do it quickly and good.

Yes, percussionists in the "tropical/salsa" genre are encouraged to avoid sight reading while playing because you become mechanical. The rest of a group is always reading and still sound great, however, is difficult for percussionists. Only a few could avoid been mechanical and those who do not at least benefit from a rehearsal and then play sight reading.

Before going Louie Bellson, go the basic and the best book to learn how to read....Ted Reed "Syncopation"...It does not have a CD and you will need a teacher somehow to tell what it means what is in the book. Nevertheless, it has "guides", based on hitting a bass drum that will teach you. Tropical music is syncopated and you will see the arrangements. Louie Bellson's books is more when you want to become more proficient once you dominate the syncopation reading....Is still a good book but it should not be the basics...Once you at least have the basics of reading, a whole world will be open to you because you could get books, people can provide you "written things" for you to practice, etc, etc, etc, that at the end will improve in your techniques.... (For your info, I am not a proficient reader...Have the basics and regret concentrating more in the instruments than reading...)

Saludos!

Posted: **Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:27 pm**

Although reading is important for the session musician, it is more important to FEEL the music. Let's face it, there are lots of books out there that can teach you how to read music, it is just a matter of finding the one that suits your needs.

I didn't learn to read music until a few years ago, and had to resort to using my children's elementary school music books! :p

There are an awful lot of musicians out there, playing any instrument who still do not read music, this does not seem to affect them in any way. (except perhaps the Genre they play)

not to mention Stevie Wonder & Ray Charles
:cool:

Some musicians, for whatever reason, may not be capable of reading, this does not seem to affect their abilities otherwise.
I suffer "straight-line dislexia" therefore although I can "read" sight reading becomes a major handicap.
I have also played as a session player & regardless of a session player's ability to read, he or she has an opportunity to rehearse the music first.

Learning to read music will raise your credibility in the "market" but it is not the measure by which you are marked.

Let's also not forget, that drums are second only to voice as the oldest instuments used by man, & that this is a tradition which was taught orally for thousands of years. You are in a tradition of "listen & learn".

If YOU feel learning to read is important, then by all means, do it. but don't sweat it too much if you find that you feel held back by the process.

Obi

Gahu Productions

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:50 am**

Well, for me it's like this:

If you ever want to compose any music you have to know how the heck to read.. but it goes further than that; "reading" isn't just seing the notes on a piece of paper and playing along. You need to learn solfege for starters. If you don't know how to read then how can you practice your exercises on technique and patterns? See all the exrcises on this site? They are wonderful exercises, that could really really help you develop both your technique and rythm. There are ones in 6/8, 5/8, 7/8 etc etc .. how will you play those if you don't know solfege?

One way of learning solfege is going to a music school.
Another way is to get Dante Agostini's "Rythmique Solfege" and "Synchopated Solfege" which are the most essential books for solfege since the the 70's. They are written for snare but you can always play them on your conga giving opens, or even combining strokes if you want (use your imagination).

I assume your friend can read.. if he can then go get the books and ask him to show you how to read... it's easy peasy, trust me!! ...

So I guess I strongly recommend learning music properly... and that is with reading.. :;):

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:35 pm**

Sabrosona you answered your own question......I might add that there are many "types" of musicians and not all of them call for being able to read music. Of course if you were looking for a gig as a "session player", first u gotta know sombody to get you in and second you better be able to read really good or you won' t be on the next session. time is money in the studio....and nobody likes to wait on a musician trying to play "catch up" with the other musicians. You have "Drum Therapists' , Teachers, Latin Band players, Dance musicians, Pop and Rock players, "Jammers" and other "types". So it really depends where you want to go with your playing. I would say learn to count out bars, learn to read at least something, form/style, etc..practice memorization of music, that will help a lot. I know off the top of my head about 10,000 tunes easy in all kinds of music, so I really don't have to read anything , unless it;s an original score....I also compose and have someone else write it out for me. I play my vibes by ear mostly and compose the same way. So it's not entirely necessary to really be able to read. I had one vibe player with me who could play anything I called out, without sheet music. He had all the Jazz standards memorized, unbelievable , but true....he also spoke 5 languages and worked for the CIA........exceptional to say the least..sooooo tha tis my 2 congas.....but it does help to learn to follow charts and understand the form of your type of music.....peace..."JC" Johnny Conga.... :;):

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:32 am**

Hi JC, let me jump in this theoretical topic by saying that if you can read music then there is a good chance that you can write it also. If you could have done that, then, you did not have to have someone else doing it for you. The way I see it, it's all about control and fine tuning. If you or I want to have any instrument in the group playing exactly what we want, then, it must be written down. It is a big difference having, say, a conga player or even a base player, playing along and sounding OK, as having them play a bar exactly the way we want. For a few guys to get together and jam a good Cuban son or some hot salsa I doubt that reading music is a must. The enjoyment I derived from my tumbadores is independent of music’s reading, but I agree with Sobrosona’s logic.
When are coming to Miami?
And how's you video shaping?

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:29 am**

Hi, guys, after Sabrosona's post I wanted to post the next questions:

How many of the members of the forum went to a music school (a formal music school)?

How many know solfege (I guess this is the translation of "solfeo" in spanish?)? Of the ones that know (and practice) solfege, who learned by his/her self and who did it in school?

I remember my teacher telling me a story that I would like to confirm or not. He was of the school (like JC I believe, though I might be wrong and I hope I'm not being disrespectful) that thought afrocuban music should be learned, at least at the beginning, as cubans (or africans) did: by passion (I guess this is not exactly correct, but well I guess you understand my point). The "western" traditions were to be learned afterwards, and this included solfege, writing, etc.etc.etc. (I'm not a musician, so I don't know exactly what is "etc.etc.etc.", though I've experienced it 'cause in my direct family there are several formal musicians). I have to say though, that he went to music school.

Can anyone give me their insights on this? Especially some cubans, say Zaragemca: I would like to know how did they learned to play congas (and other hand percussion instruments).

For example, is Giovanni a "formal school" musician, or is he "self taught? What about some of the great cuban musicians? Say Changuito? Does anyone knows?

I know (I've read several times) that the cuban music schools are great, and many well known cuban percussionists have passed through ENA and ISA (sorry if I'm wrong here), but would like to know your insights on this.

Thanks! Good Luck!!

PS. JC, I hope I understood your statement before. If not, sorry and again, I hope I wasn't disrespectful.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:51 am**

Dvon,

Only a few of the well known percussionists went to formal musical school. Formal meaning perhaps completing a schooling that involved high school and music studies and/or going to college and/or doing a little but not completing it. Some of them went to music school for another instrument and then picked up on percussion. Some picked the percussion from the top.

Anyway, yes, Sabrosona's recommendation is good one. Have to respect that. Also, "ours", is good also: to learn to read percussion notation only.

A good musician will play regardless if it reads or not, however, if you want to broaden your horizons, unless you are a virtuoso, it will help you. Is up to the individual. I agree with everybody's point about playing from the heart. Nevertheless, knowing your "formalities" about music will definitively help you. You might not need it but in case you do, is there!

My understanding about current Cubans musicians, is that they go to formal music school. Yes, most of those raised during the revolution era had to go the hassles of going seriously all day long. An example is Horacio El Negro Hernandez' story as well as others. Changuito appears to be already more than a kid by the time the revolution in Cuba took place. He might or he might not have formal school.

In regards to Giovanny, he had some formal teachings in Puerto Rico then I've heard he went to the States and got some more formal schooling. (I've heard he was a "freak" at practicing going 12 hours or more a day). I think Giovanni must had some formal schooling because he was a teacher at Berkley for a couple of years.

Another example is Tito Puente, he had a master's degree in music. I've heard Richie Flores does not read...Guys like Tito de Gracia and Marc Quinones did get some high schooling involving music and know how to read based on those studies and by doing self study. Some learned how to read after years of playing because they saw the necessity to become more of a choice for gigging, i.e., Charlie Sierra, Albert Machuca, Ralph Irrizary, etc.

Again, is not necessary, first play your instrument, but it will help!

Saludos!

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:04 am**

Nice reply.
Thanks Raymond.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:54 am**

JohnnyConga wrote:Sabrosona you answered your own question......

Huh?!? :O I aswered my own question? And which question would that be? :O

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:10 am**

Ok, let's get things straight here...

When I say "learn to read" I do mean percussion/drumset only.. unless you'd like to play the piano too which is fine by me lol ..

About going to music school, I suggested that because it's cheaper than having a private tutor (which in our case there's one for free right?)..bugger is when u go to music school u WILL have to learn the piano in most cases lol

I myself, never went to music school.. in fact I learned the basics AT SCHOOL, when I was a pupil..from then on I had to study myself and learned most of the things I know by myself. Some people prefer learning by themselves but for some it can be tough.. the ones that can't do it on their own should ask for help no?

Solfege is indeed el solfeo..

Good for me though, I might be on my own here struggling with complex rudiments, patterns and entonaciones but at least hubbie's a drummer and whenever I'm in doubt I have someone to turn to for help (am I playing this right, do I sound right, am I losing the tempo, how the #### do u play this?? ...etc etc etc..)..

if any questions, shoot!

congaplace.com

Is reading music a must - Is reading music a must