Loop Software instead of Drummers

[congamyk]

Lately I have become very sour toward drummers I've been playing with. All of the drum kit players I have been performing with lately know little about Afro-Cuban, African and Brazilian rhythms. They also play loud and try to fill every little void leaving no room for the congas.

I am contemplating playing only with bands that don't use a drummer ( timbale, DJ or no drummer at all). I'm also thinking about using drum software to create my own backing tracks to play along with. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

I wonder how other congueros feel about drum kit players? What has your experience been like?



Edited By congamyk on 1131427981

[onile]

Alafia Congamyk!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings brother!

Yo! check out the following post for info on this subject: Topic: Got my Handsonic!, Got it, Man!!!
I feel ya' brothelee, most drummers who want to cover every empty void in the rythm, not to mention that most of them don't respect the laws of dynamics, spit! they probably were out of class when they covered the subject! :angry:
Beat Hogs!

Anyway, check out the topic I indicated above and maybe you'll find some helpful stuff there!

Many blessings!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1131429727

[Roy]

Don't give up on the kit drummers (I'm one). If possible, use it as an opportunity to teach them something. Some will learn, sadly most will not. I'm sure that your description could have fit me at times. But I have finally been enlightened, bought a set of LP Matadors, and learning proper Afro-Cuban techniques from a great instructor. With the help of some patient conga players, I may even learn to feel the rhythms when seated at the drum kit as well! :laugh:

[onile]

Alafia Roy!
I hope that you are well!

Welcome to the forum! You are one of the few, the rare, and hopefully the increasingly sensitive drummers to the dynamics of percussion. I have worked with a couple of drummers who have in fact, been so consumed with being the where withall of rythm, that they leave no space untouched in a rythm. Currenly however, I am working with a young drummer who is probably much like yourself, sensitive to the dynamics of rythm. There are a collection of drummers that know instinctively how to play "in the pocket" so to speak!

It's comforting to hear that you are one of them! There are even conga drummers who do the same thing, riff whenever there is a break in the music, that is so annoying also. Some conga players can be so insensitive also, but if you check their history, or background, you'll find that they did not receive instruction from an instructor of good reputation, or any instructor at all. Anyone can purchase a drum of course, and begin playing noise, that's the beauty of it, but it's up to that person to seek out an instructor to go beyond the "noise" factor. Congrats to ya' brother for doing just that!

Disclaimer! No drummers were hurt in the posting of this message! :p :laugh:
Many blessings!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1131450833

[zaragemca]

Certainly there had been the situations with some drummers,(which have been playing without percussionists and having not knowledge of interaction and dynamics),it started a few years ago in the Jazz/ circuit,(when some drummers didn't care who was doing the solos),from reinforcing some accentuation in the musical phrase,they went to doing solos throughtout the whole song...When the drum/set was incorporated,(in Cuba), into this genre there was not problem becouse the directors would be there to point out when the drummers were not letting space for interaction,but then when the concept of Songo got in the U.S.,some of the drummers here didn't have the concept of multy/percussion structure, interaction,etc., and the rat sometimes get loose ...,but it is the responsability of the music/director to keep the string on check.,(that's also what I teach to my students).Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1132081848

[rumbaman]

How are you all doin' today good i hope . I wonce heard a saying that goes . A good musician is one who knows when not to play . This is so true and I always think about it .

rumbaman

[JohnnyConga]

I have learned the first thing you do with a drummer is "introduce" yourself and "disarm" them with open kindness and a desire to play "alonside" them....Drummers per se don't like sharing the stage with a "percussionist" cause it takes away from them being the "focal point" in the band.... I have also met drummers that were "cold and indifferent" to me, and wouldn't even shake my hand, cause they saw me as a threat...which still happens to me till this day....so u learn to work "around" that mentality and focus on "your" job, and let your playing do the "talking" for you.....I have always said "I let my hands do the talking for me!"......also like Rumbaman said Ill say a bit differently......"when in doubt-lay out!"......"JC" Johnny Conga....

[yoni]

Wow, all great advice in this thread to me. I like that - to "disarm" them with open kindness... with plenty of that in a group you get the chemistry where things sound best. If a set drummer or other player is always all over everyone I'd prefer to play with another band. As a youngster, I did get into "percussion wars" sometimes on gigs with set drummers who played extra-aggressive. But unless you're well-miked, those drumsticks will out-gun you every time, and the "music" will suffer anyway.
So much more fun and interesting with those who like playing with dynamics and open ears.

Yonatan

[zaragemca]

I know that some percussionists have had some problems,but I couldn't say that I have one,when I'm the drummer,or Timbalero,usually the conga player is one of my students,and when I'm playing congas in the jazz/setting,all those drummers,(usually already know me,or have heard about me),of course they want to show some chops,so I could see that there are good,(becouse they know I'm also a drummer),but I get good interaction with them,and also with the bass/players which always are having a good time with me.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1131570183

[onile]

Alafia Abures!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings!

You know, I believe that it's the more "seasoned" drummer who is usually the easiest to get along with. But also, when you have a younger drummer who has, as in Zaragemca's case, heard of your great talents and conquests (musically that is), that they humble themselves to back off a bit and play the ink!

There are many trap players that gravitate to the latin percussion side of town just to broaden their horizons, and once they do they gain an appreciation for what we do. This is a "generalization" of course, not applicable to "all" drummers. There are still those hardcore rock/jazz/? influenced drummers who refuse to step aside and share the spotlight. Tisk! Tisk! Shame on you!

I have to agree with brother JC however, kill them with kindness, and if it fails, then they must face the rath of the CONGA PLAYER! :angry: :p

Many blessings my brothers!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1131574086

[ABAKUA]

Man... hearing these stories makes me glad to be in Sydney.

I work consistantly with 3 of the most influential latin/afro cuban drummers this country has ever seen.
These guys have studied all the greats of the western world as well as devouring all cuban forms, from all the great contemporary drummers of the past thru to current leaders in the field, etc etc as well as having consumed all that 'Drumset Artists of Cuba' video by Chuck Silverman had to offer, hit for hit, note for note is down like as if they had recorded the clips themselves.
It with no ego or that I say these 3 guys blow away any other timbalero or drummer that has ever been around here and can hold it with the best in world no doubt whatsoever.
I am very fortunate to work with musicans of this calibre.

There are several other good timbaleros and drummers around, but I work with these top 3 on a weekely basis as well as them being amongst my closest friends which I see almost every day.

Away from the latino drummers, gringo drummers here are hip to the whole afro cuban/latin thing and have a strong respect for us established latino conga players/percussionists, even the more accomplished drummers are always eager to meet us/work with us/jam/listen to us in regards to opening their minds to our rhythms and grooves and how we work together etc in combination to bass, piano, clave etc...
Very much into songo and descarga forms they are.

It saddens me to hear of how it is for you guys, and reading through that thread of who gigs with who and how often etc... I thank Eleggua for opening before me the path I am on here in Sydney and the opportunities which have arisen for me here.

I sincerely hope the situation changes for the better for all of you guys not as fortunate.

[Diceman]

Good thread brothers,

It is comforting to know that we have all suffered with drummers without 'big ears'. My solution is to make sure that I can hear myself, and the drummer can hear me, through good buying my own mics and sub mixer (thanks for advice Onile) and trying the JC suggested 'charm offensive' and to try to come to some agreement about where we are playing sonically, for example, if I am playing a shaker, there is no need for a high hat, if I am playing congas, no need for toms on the 4 and 4+ etc etc.
This also works in the other direction with percussionists making sure they dont tread on the drummers sonic toes. This again only seems to work with drummers that listen (or can hear) so mics and good foldback is the key (or drummers playing quieter with smaller sticks or brushes- did I just say that?)
But full credit to Roy for wanting to make it work and for being perc freindly, wanna be our friend and post this thread on other drum forums?

The great debate continues

Diceman

[ABAKUA]

It is comforting to know that we have all suffered with drummers without 'big ears'.
Diceman

Fortunately not me!! - read my post above yours.

:laugh:

[yoni]

I'm lucky too, in that such a situation hasn't happened to me in a long while. I like to work with top-notch open-hearted players. But if it does happen that I find myself in a setting with less-than-nice chemistry, I'd just as soon walk away from it, like I said. In areas with lots of musicians, this can unfortunately happen sometimes with those who might feel intimidated, for one reason or another.

[Diceman]

Abakua, Yoni,

I am pleased you have never had that problem, and I look forward to the day, I can choose who I play with.
But I guess you have to pay your dues before you can.
That said, there are drummers who I would work with any time who do have big ears, I was'nt dissing all drummers.

Take care amigos

Diceman