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Posted: **Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:23 pm**

Hi everyone, I have a question about playing in clave. Since I'm a self teaching student. Yes! I have searched for instructor but no luck yet. Am I doing this right?

rhythms in cha-cha, Mambo, & Guajria in the 2-3 clave. I'm also doing this for Bolero. Is this wrong or right? I also use my for foot tapping to keep in beat With pulse falling on beat 2 & 4.

Rumba I play in the 3-2.

Can you give me an example for the type of music played using the 6/8 clave?

The other question I have is this? When playing music like rock, folk, country and R&B. What patterns to use and where does the cave fall in?

Last thing. Johnny C. In case you see this thread will your DVD cover in detail clave?

Best Regards, All

PS. Love my Pearl congas & MQ Timbales!!!

Posted: **Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:58 pm**

TBR...the clave u are talking about is called "Bembe Clave" rumba clave with a 6/8 feel.. Also understand that not ALL music deals with clave, it is a part of latin music, though you can listen to the song "Hambone" and see that it is in 3/2 clave. As far as patterns, I couldn't tell you in this format . I would need to hear the music ur talking about and then one tune at a time, listen to the form, and come up with a rhythmic pattern that works/fits the tune,sorry. Improvise, come up with ur own patterns if u can, but remember to "Lock and Rock"(play the groove), you want to make people move and respond and the constant groove works. If u "overplay" and are too busy, it won't work . My DVD will cover all the clave patterns. Thank u for asking....."JC" Johnny Conga....

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:30 am**

Thanks Jc, you are alway there to help. That's what I find myself doing improvising and playing by ear and coming up with my own patterns. It seems to work, but just wanted to make sure. Today I when by one of our local store and picked up a pearl percussion 2005 booket and you were in it. Very cool! Looking forward to seeing you next time I do business in seattle. Jc, by chance have you seen the video called Roots of Rhythm? A worldwide celebration of LATIN MUSIC, FROM AFRICA TO THE CARIBBEAN AND AMERICA. Best to you

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:10 pm**

We only play two 4X4 songs in 2-3 clave, Comparsa and Mozambique.. It's interesting to me that they are the only two we play with Bombas on the lowest notes. Everything else is either Son or Rumba clave. Rumba clave on everything folkloric except Yambu, and Son for everything modern like Mambo, Songo, etc..
The 6X8 patterns are all in short bell or 3-2 6X8 clave, which is really short bell minus the doubles.

Here's my own list of tunes which grows with time. All of them have clave on top for a reference.

http://www.animaldreams.net/cong/congblock.html

hope that helps..
Dave

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:36 pm**

Thanks Dave, this is a big help. This will allow me to practice & keep learning.

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:55 pm**

Hi TBR...I was a "hired consultant" for that historical series "Routes of Rhythm", with Harry Belafonte, and I have my own copy of it. Yes I am a "Pearl Elite" Endorsee now almost 8 years. What kind of business are you in ? and how often do u come to Seattle?.....paz..."JC" Johnny Conga...

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:06 am**

Jc,excellent video. I have had my own business for about 5 years now. I'm a Jeweler from start to finish product.
Casting, Designing,Diamond setting and repairs. I travel about 6 to 8 times a year to different places & about 4 time to the carribean. I also make several steel pans a year. I can play okay as long as I have music sheet. Jc,have you heard the name Rene Plasencia? His production company brings band (musician's ) to the orlando area. With groups from PR,DR and the states (Latino groups). The other name is Oswald sauri, (uncle). Conga, bongos, singer and paino player. older cuban players. I know his contact was celia cruz, also played with cuban paino player Bolla De Neive. He has passed on now but has several songs register. If I do go to seattle, I'll let you know ahead of time & you do the same if come to any part of Florida. Best to you always

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:03 pm**

Not all music is in clave but afro cuban, such as salsa, etc, etc, is in clave.

The clave is determined by the arrangement. (In other words, the song and the feel the arranger gave to the song). Therefore, if you do not have the arrangement, is easy to determine...just check the "feel" of what clave the song is in....

In essence, once the clave starts "playing" is all the same. The most important time in the arrangement to be aware of the clave is when you start or you stop for a break. When you start playing again you need to know the clave the song is in so you could start again....(Timbaleros have the hardest part since their "cascareo" and "campaneo" is broken down just like the clave, one part is 3 and another is 2).

Saludos!

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:51 pm**

Ray, I was a bit confused but I'm now starting to get the hang of it. At times I do get lost but I'm able to get back on track. At times using a double beat but it gets me there. now all I need in regards to timbales are my cymbals. I'm setting the studio up this week. I'll let you know how it goes. Picking up the electronic today. Saludos de Tampa

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:29 pm**

HI TBR No i don't kow Rene and lived in Miami for 17 years, played all over the state.Coming back to Miami?,um not anytime soon, unless it's about work..also try playin galon g with early Eddie Palmieri records cause Eddie like to write arrangements that "turned" the clave around thru the music...from 2/3 to 3/2 and then back again..also from Joe Cubas-We must be doing soemthing Right! album is Clave Mambo, play along withthat too if u have it....just play th eclave and let the music "turn" it for ya ...."JC" Johnny Conga...ps ..I start shooting my NEW Learning DVD today....

Posted: **Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:25 pm**

Hi Rey,
I’d like to offer my 2 cents to the clave discussion.

There are no 3-2 or 2-3 rhythms per se. 3-2, 2-3 refers to where a part begins. If a song or instrumental part begins within the three-side (or on a pick-up into the three-side) it’s in a 3-2 clave sequence (or 3-2 clave "direction"). If a song begins within the two-side side (or on a pick-up into the two-side), it’s in 2-3 clave.

In folkloric music "one" is considered to be the first beat of the three-side, whether or not the song is in 3-2 or 2-3. The clave or 6/8 bell begins on the three-side. A 2-3 folkloric song is considered to be in the second half, or "back" of the rhythm. As a folkloric percussionist, you need to know if the particular part you are playing requires you to enter in a specific place within clave. If it does, you will enter in that place regardless if the accompanying song is in 3-2 or 2-3.

In popular music a chord progression may begin on either side of clave. "One" is the beginning of the chord progression, so depending on the song, "one" may occur on either side of the clave. As a popular music percussionist you need to be able to begin your part on either side of clave, depending upon where the chord progression begins.

3-2, 2-3 is a popular music concept and terminology. It can be helpful in understanding folkloric rhythms, but it can also get in the way of that understanding.

-David

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:19 am**

Thanks Dave, not having an instructor in the area to guide me brings up alot of questions. Books don't alway cut it. Hopefully by going to percussion clinci (if I can find some) it will help. Best Regards

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:05 am**

Rey,
Sounds like you are doing well, even without a teacher. I highly recommend the annual Afro-Cuban workshop in California. <full discloser: I'm an instructor there> You can check it out at: http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Eextended/afr ... index.html

Manny Aregullin from Tucson goes every year.

In the meantime, there are the DVDs.

-David

Posted: **Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:32 am**

Dave, I do plan on going hopefully. In the mean time I'll just keep practing. Thanks for your advice and keep in touch.

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:45 am**

tampabay..,
always the pulse with your foot must fall in 1 and 3 in 4/4 time. in cut time or binary time for faster tempo the foot pulse falls in 1 and 2. make sense?? my best, franc

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Clave Help? - Which rhythum goes with clave?